Well..Danny Ward had other "issues"

I agree with most of your post but why use Ward as a negative example? In 2004 he was emerging into one of the best props in the league. hence his representative honours.

Ward thoroughly deserved his GF ring, had a great year and went on to the pinnacle of the sport. Just like Bailey btw. They were not "carried along" by the rest of the great 2004 team, they were an integral part of it. In fact, that mantle probably belonged to Barrie, reaching the back end of his career.

Agree to disagree on this one .

You used bailey as a positive example hence I brought up Ward. Rings mean nothing when judging a players ability other than they were part of a championship team that year.

Smith has rep honours but you keep saying you think he should leave Leeds now he's proved his doubters wrong. Off topic I personally don't think Bailey has proved his doubters wrong with the same conviction that Smith has. Again agree to disagree.

Back on topic I think its ok for fans to doubt bailey, he doesn't always play like he did the other day which is more frustrating in my book.

I'm not sure. I posted something similar on the ridiculously long Bailey thread. I just think they're still bitter over something that happens in October at OT.

I think The Black Adrian Morley has more than proved himself. He's been a regular for 6 years minus 9 months and in that time he's been selected by Darryl Powell, Tony Smith, Brian Noble and Brian McClennan.

At last.... Its only taken them a week.

not bitter and twisted at all..what an embarrasment.

Ward was a great player in 2004, and carried our pack for much of 2005. He has had other issues which have prevented him from improving. Ability is not the problem with him.

Danny they are only SL and international coaches what do they know ffs.
Get a grip man.

Fair enough but I vehemently believe that Ward was one of the best props in the game in 2004 and 2005. Which prop from 2004 do you think had the bigger impact i the Grand Final, Ward or McDermott? If we can't judge a player on success in his domestic team or representative honours achieved I am at a loss as to how we can judge him.

No I don't. Link please.

I think Smith is a fantastic player and hope he stays. What I have said is he is not irreplaceable. He's 2nd choice full back and BJB is in the wings. I don;t think he's a better winger than Donald and Hall is adequate. It remains to be seen what his contribution will be at centre. Therefore, we should not break the bank or try and compete with any outlandish alleged union offers. I have also tried to inject some balance into the debate of people who will slate a player in poor form and hail him as Lewis Jones after several decent performances. Can you understand the difference between that and "he should leave"?

Agree to disagree. I think being a mainstay of our pack for seven hugely successful seasons means he has little if anything to prove.

Agreed. No player does. Just like Smith hasn't always hit the vein of form he showed at full back in the last seven games he played there.

I cant believe the straw clutching about Bailey being picked for international honours. He had a half decent first game, then was absolute garbage and was dropped quicker than he was by Paul Sculthorpe