FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home Wigan Warriors Benefit of Doubt



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:02 pm 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Nov 19 2006
Posts: 5504
warriorweed wrote:I always try to judge a VR decision by swapping it round and thinking what I would have felt had the decision had to have been made the other way around.

eg.

Lulu try - I thought that Ainscough was offside (if only slightly) and would have been mad as hell if Leeds had scored it and it would have been allowed.

Hock try - this board would have been up in arms had Leeds scored that try and it been allowed. The problems lies in the fact that the obstruction rule is a complete mess and I don't think anyone, and that includes the refs, know how to interpret the rule correctly.

Peacock try - Had it been Fielden I would have gutted to see a decision any other than TRY.

Therefore in my opinion as hard as it may be to take I think they got all 3 decisions correct.


I'm afraid I disagree with most of this.

Lulu try - correct decision, no try.

Hock try - have we really, as a game, come to the point where a player who knows he cannot make a tackle has only to throw himself at a stationary player in order to get a perfectly worked try disallowed! :shock: Sure, if the attacking player changes his line to 'block' the defender but deliberately running at a player and claiming obstruction is making a mockery of our game. Let's be honest...and this should be the defining reasoning here...had O'Loughlin not been on the field the Leeds player would not have prevented that try!

Peacocks try - These are given as 'no try' every week. In fact Leeds held a couple up the previous match at Warrington and rightly got the decisions. The defender should be credited just as much as the attacker. Nowhere can the ball be seen to touch the ground, yet you can clearly see it held up. As a Leeds poster says elswhere, you can only 'guess' that it 'probably' touched the ground. That's not good enough. The only actual evidence suggests that it was held up. Why should the benefit go to th attacker when the only evidence available supports the defender?! As an aside look at the player's reactions. Peacock doesn't celebrate the try and Richards is vociferous in his claims that it has been held up by O'Loughlin. Player reaction is usually as good an indicator as anything else!

I thought Smith was poor last night. He never called a single forward pass, despite there being many, including some that lead to tries and missed 2 blatent reefs among many other things. However we lost due to our own errors, so in the end it's all just tomorrow's chip wrappers...

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:33 pm 
International Board Member
Club Owner
User avatar

Joined: Mar 05 2003
Posts: 22289
Phuzzy wrote:Hock try - have we really, as a game, come to the point where a player who knows he cannot make a tackle has only to throw himself at a stationary player in order to get a perfectly worked try disallowed! :shock: Sure, if the attacking player changes his line to 'block' the defender but deliberately running at a player and claiming obstruction is making a mockery of our game. Let's be honest...and this should be the defining reasoning here...had O'Loughlin not been on the field the Leeds player would not have prevented that try!



The Wigan dummy runner really needed to run through the line and not stop, causing a potential block on a defender. I'm sure we've all fallen foul of this, Leeds did last season at Harlequins for instance.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:40 pm 
Player Coach
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Feb 25 2006
Posts: 2644
Location: Lost in Hull
moonlight flit wrote:Video refs are biased !


biased in what way please?






Image

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:46 pm 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Nov 19 2006
Posts: 5504
tvoc wrote:The Wigan dummy runner really needed to run through the line and not stop, causing a potential block on a defender. I'm sure we've all fallen foul of this, Leeds did last season at Harlequins for instance.


I'm not particularly questioning the decision so much as the fact that the video refs have come to interpret it this way. It was always the case that a player had to 'alter their line' so as to be seen to be deliberately bocking (or obstructing :wink: ) another player for this decision to be given. Now all a player has to do is launch himself at a stationary player in order to get a perfectly worked try disallowed! That's a pathetic interpretation of the rule IMO and I'm not sure how we, as a game, have come to accept it.

Just one question. Do you think the Leeds defender would have prevented the try had O'Loughlin not been there? I doubt he would have even got a hand to Hock let alone effected the tackle on a player in full flight! That should be the sole arbiter of whether he was obstructed or not.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:12 pm 
International Board Member
Club Owner
User avatar

Joined: Mar 05 2003
Posts: 22289
Phuzzy wrote:Just one question. Do you think the Leeds defender would have prevented the try had O'Loughlin not been there? I doubt he would have even got a hand to Hock let alone effected the tackle on a player in full flight! That should be the sole arbiter of whether he was obstructed or not.


I'd need to at least have a few more looks to judge on that one. As I said before though had the Wigan dummy runner continued his run through the line then there would have been no problem. It's a coached tactic for the dummy runner to halt around the gain line/defensive line to create a block and open a hole in the defence. While Ablett certainly made the most of the block, the Wigan player being stationary there minding his own business as it were, gave the struggling defender an easy way out.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:01 pm 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Nov 19 2006
Posts: 5504
tvoc wrote:I'd need to at least have a few more looks to judge on that one. As I said before though had the Wigan dummy runner continued his run through the line then there would have been no problem. It's a coached tactic for the dummy runner to halt around the gain line/defensive line to create a block and open a hole in the defence. While Ablett certainly made the most of the block, the Wigan player being stationary there minding his own business as it were, gave the struggling defender an easy way out.


True. But that's exactly what's wrong with giving these decisions to the defender throwing themselves at a stationary opponent. There should be nowhere to hide on a rugby field. If he wasn't up to the task at hand (which he wasn't) he/his side should pay the penalty. There was no infringement or hinderence to him making the tackle had he spotted the break early enough. He didn't and was left floundering. Giving players this 'soft option' is, as I said earlier, making a mockery of the rule.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:18 pm 
International Board Member
Club Owner
User avatar

Joined: Mar 05 2003
Posts: 22289
Phuzzy wrote:True. But that's exactly what's wrong with giving these decisions to the defender throwing themselves at a stationary opponent. There should be nowhere to hide on a rugby field. If he wasn't up to the task at hand (which he wasn't) he/his side should pay the penalty. There was no infringement or hinderence to him making the tackle had he spotted the break early enough. He didn't and was left floundering. Giving players this 'soft option' is, as I said earlier, making a mockery of the rule.


And on the other side of the same coin Wigan's dummy runner was needlessly stood still in the defensive line, causing his own team a problem as it turned out, so it cuts both ways.

At least simple crossing with no defender in touching distance is no longer the automatic penalty that it once was although occasionally it's still blown up.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:24 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Mar 15 2002
Posts: 12792
Location: Leeds 13
Cruncher wrote:You guys really think you're something special. You're not.

If you were a genuinely special team, you'd have blown us away by 50 clear points last night. As it was, you deservedly won, but were helped massively in the second half by some extremely dubious refereeing.

Don't worry - we'll be in the play-offs. And yet again, you lot will be kakking your keks at the thought of meeting us.


In a way, you're right. In pretty much all of our league games this season, we've been there to be done over.

It therefore begs the question why have five teams, all of whom work under the same regulations and restrictions that Leeds work under, been incapable of doing it?






Quote:I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Quote:Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:28 pm 
Player Coach
International Star

Joined: Apr 08 2006
Posts: 7069
Location: Central Coast
Cruncher wrote:You guys really think you're something special. You're not.

If you were a genuinely special team, you'd have blown us away by 50 clear points last night. As it was, you deservedly won, but were helped massively in the second half by some extremely dubious refereeing.

Don't worry - we'll be in the play-offs. And yet again, you lot will be kakking your keks at the thought of meeting us.


from your posts crusher i can see you really love your team! and fair do's to ya. but this post is born out of great disapointment with your own team and non of it is really true.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:40 pm 
Player Coach
International Star

Joined: Apr 08 2006
Posts: 7069
Location: Central Coast
Phuzzy wrote:True. But that's exactly what's wrong with giving these decisions to the defender throwing themselves at a stationary opponent. There should be nowhere to hide on a rugby field. If he wasn't up to the task at hand (which he wasn't) he/his side should pay the penalty. There was no infringement or hinderence to him making the tackle had he spotted the break early enough. He didn't and was left floundering. Giving players this 'soft option' is, as I said earlier, making a mockery of the rule.


every team in every professional sport are coached to play the rules to there own advantage.

you change the law and coaches in defence or attack will find a new way to bend them.

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3





It is currently Wed Nov 27, 2024 7:12 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ksm1701 and 316 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Wed Nov 27, 2024 7:12 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
36m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
ComeOnYouUll
4049
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6s
Shopping list for 2025
HU8HFC
5588
10s
New Kit
Cokey
70
15s
How many games will we win
Shifty Cat
48
29s
Writers required
H.G.S.A
1
42s
Film game
karetaker
5766
45s
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
2
48s
Ground Improvements
phe13
198
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
518
1m
Salford
Smiffy27
59
1m
Rumours and signings v9
Mark_P1973
28902
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
2
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Getting a new side to gel
Wigan Bull
2
TODAY
Fixtures
Hockley Bron
12
TODAY
Writers required
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
2025 Fixtures
Jemmo
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
36m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
ComeOnYouUll
4049
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6s
Shopping list for 2025
HU8HFC
5588
10s
New Kit
Cokey
70
15s
How many games will we win
Shifty Cat
48
29s
Writers required
H.G.S.A
1
42s
Film game
karetaker
5766
45s
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
2
48s
Ground Improvements
phe13
198
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
518
1m
Salford
Smiffy27
59
1m
Rumours and signings v9
Mark_P1973
28902
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
2
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Getting a new side to gel
Wigan Bull
2
TODAY
Fixtures
Hockley Bron
12
TODAY
Writers required
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
2025 Fixtures
Jemmo
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.