We need to raise our game. We were awful tonight (by our own high standards). Playing like that next week will only see us get raped.

All this in mind, just how poor are Salford.

Widnes must be going flipping mental.

True, we were bad.

We really need to be up for that lot next week or we will indeed get a shoeing.

Despite the fact that Salford have been consistently better than Widnes throughout the last few seasons ... and I assume you've not seen too many Widnes scores this season either??

So what we might be poor!!!But Quins and Cas Still managed to put more on the board against us than you lot
Oh and some cut that scruffy c$"t Longs hair and he might stand half a chance of seeing where he is kicking

I don't expect us to be firing on all cylinders with displays of precise attacking brilliance this early in the season.

Maybe not, but it would be nice for us to actually be doing the basics right for most of the time, which we aren't doing either. We are a tonking from Leeds kind of poor just now and when was the last time we were that poor?

I think a lot of Saints fans are in for a nasty surprise over the next season or two.

You think? Maybe next season, but this season we still have the core of the successful team and so at least should be playing the basics well and showing some flair in attack, surely? If Cunningham, Long and Gidley all go at the end of this season then I would expect a pretty significant dip unless we recruit in an astute (and possibly expensive) fashion. But I suppose I have been expecting our senior players, the core of the team to function as a unit with the youngsters learning from and blending with that. Obviously, injuries (and bans) don't help, and perhaps the slowing down of the ruck (to virtually standstill tonight) is confusing us given our trademark was fast PTBs. I don't think we should be looking this poor, though, in the fundamentals given the considerable experience we have out there. Or does that sound daft?

Whilst i agree with Carlos about some fans getting a nasty surprise i also want to raise a point based on some stats. I think we all tend to get a bit carried away at the start of a new season with how much early results and performances impact on the final outcome of the league come September. So here are a few summaries to put things into perspective:

First 5 Games of 2007

Huddersfield Giants 10 - 18 Saints - WIN BY +8 POINTS
Saints 6 - 14 Harlequins - LOSS BY -8 POINTS
WT Wildcats 29 - 22 Saints - LOSS BY -7 POINTS
Saints 34 - 22 Bradford Bulls - WIN BY +12 POINTS
Warrington Wolves 12 - 48 Saints - WIN BY +36 POINTS

Wins = 3
Loses = 2
For = 128
Against = 87

(World Club Challenge game excluded)
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First 5 games of 2008

Hull Kingston Rovers 24 - 22 Saints - LOSS BY -2 POINTS
Saints 30 - 22 Warrington Wolves - WIN BY +8 POINTS
Bradford Bulls 16 - 22 Saints - WIN BY +4 POINTS
Saints 34 - 30 WT Wildcats - WIN BY +4 POINTS
Saints 30 - 29 Hull FC - WIN BY +1 POINT

Wins = 4
Loses = 1
For = 138
Against = 121

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First 5 games of 2009

Saints 26 - 14 Warrington Wolves - WIN BY +12 POINTS
Huddersfield Giants 6 - 23 Saints - WIN BY +17 POINTS
Saints 19 - 20 Hull Kingston Rovers - LOSS BY -1 POINT
Celtic Crusaders 0 - 4 Saints - WIN BY +4 POINTS
Saints 38 - 12 Salford Reds - WIN BY +26 POINTS

Wins = 4
Loses = 1
For = 110
Against = 52

I hope this helps put things into perspective slightly. This season we've managed to a) Win as many games as last year and more than 2007. b) Do so by a higher points difference on average. And c) Whilst not scoring quite as many, have conceded far fewer points than the previous two years in which we have gone on to Lift 2 out of the three domestic trophies on offer.