Joined: Sep 19 2003 Posts: 3525 Location: Manchester
John D H wrote: you (for a fair period anyway) were the only full time team in the country.
Not THAT old chestnut AGAIN. Unbelievable. That myth/urban legend/pro-SC, anti-Wigan propaganda has been trotted out and then demolished so many times on this board.... dearie me....
Badwanger wrote:IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.
nickmanator wrote:billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind
robbierotten wrote:Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.
Deano G wrote:Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?
Quote:Maybe if at the end of the Year during those periods we had a Top 8 competition to decide who was the Best Maybe Wigan wouldn't have won 8 in 10/11 years would they as this would be a Knockout Comp! Oh wait a minute we did, the Premiership! Now then How many clubs won that in those 10 years?? Oh Look - 5 different teams won it and a further 4 were in the Final !
League leaders 2005/2006/2007/2008 Saints! Very Competitive!
GF winners in the last 10 years - 3 different teams! Other teams int the Final - 2 different teams!
So Less different teams have made the SL Knockout Final over the last 10 years comapred to the Prem Final in the 10 years of our so called dominace!
Maybe if we had 1st past the post for the last 10 years Saints or Whoever may have won 10 in a row! Who Knows!
Lets take the CC! Our period something like 3 different winners and - 7 different other finalists!
Last 10 years - 4 different winners and 3 different finalists!
Turn it into a Cup competion & you Can Influence/Manufacture a Competition were one doesnt really exist to the levels you think it does!
Seeing we finished 3rd last 2 x years & Saints fans think were crap what does that make teams 4 to 12! How does that make Super Duper League More Competitive?
As i said in a Bar on the Gold Coast after the World Cup Semi Final/Tournament Fiasco! Us 12 can go outside and have a Competitive Game, It wouldn't mean we were any Good!
We have to stop searching for competitiveness and worry more about raising Excellence!
Thats the best post i have read on this site in a long time! Proves everyone wrong who says it is better under the current system.
Sharpy_4a wrote:Thats the best post i have read on this site in a long time! Proves everyone wrong who says it is better under the current system.
We are simply rewarding crapness now!
You'll find if you look back over the years that there are few of us that have been trying to educate the Super Duper League lovers, but alas they are so blinkered.
They are from the Eddie Hemmings school who believe players x and y are the "best in the world"
Like it or not Rugby League in this country has gone backwards massively since Super League came into being.
The World Cup was the culmination of years of competitive mediocrity and the majority will not admit it.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row Saints have five in a row
Jukesays wrote:Maybe if at the end of the Year during those periods we had a Top 8 competition to decide who was the Best Maybe Wigan wouldn't have won 8 in 10/11 years would they as this would be a Knockout Comp! Oh wait a minute we did, the Premiership! Now then How many clubs won that in those 10 years?? Oh Look - 5 different teams won it and a further 4 were in the Final !
League leaders 2005/2006/2007/2008 Saints! Very Competitive!
GF winners in the last 10 years - 3 different teams! Other teams int the Final - 2 different teams!
So Less different teams have made the SL Knockout Final over the last 10 years comapred to the Prem Final in the 10 years of our so called dominace!
Maybe if we had 1st past the post for the last 10 years Saints or Whoever may have won 10 in a row! Who Knows!
Lets take the CC! Our period something like 3 different winners and - 7 different other finalists!
Last 10 years - 4 different winners and 3 different finalists!
Turn it into a Cup competion & you Can Influence/Manufacture a Competition were one doesnt really exist to the levels you think it does!
Seeing we finished 3rd last 2 x years & Saints fans think were crap what does that make teams 4 to 12! How does that make Super Duper League More Competitive?
As i said in a Bar on the Gold Coast after the World Cup Semi Final/Tournament Fiasco! Us 12 can go outside and have a Competitive Game, It wouldn't mean we were any Good!
We have to stop searching for competitiveness and worry more about raising Excellence!
With a tear to my eye your right, the standard has gone down so much.
Someone said on here the other week when we played Manly our half-backs and LF was Gregory, Edwards and Hanly, Leeds had the other week Burrow, Mcguire and Sinfield. That is a massive gulf in class.
Dropkick Murphy..we actually saw and heard a mass of bouncing and scarf and flag waving to Dale Cavese that drowned out anything we could muster.. It stopped us singing our own celebratory songs, it died out seconds later when we accepted we couldn't be heard over the Wigan lot Celebrations muted from us, job done from them. Most fans who slag them off are jealous their own club's support is nowhere near that good - sally cinnamon..Why not discuss Wigan? It's a rugby league message board. Wigan are the most famous brand in rugby league - Tre Cool..Saints fans are hopeless unless it's a cup final or grand final. Wigan fans are so much more loyal and passionate - the flying biscuit..Wires havent been massively succesful over the years, but I've spoke to Brian Bevan And he spoke to me and i wouldnt swap that for Wigans History, ever - Ande..on the TV i could only hear the Wigan fans with about 10 to go - Saint94..Every team is in your feckin shadow, we all know - FIOS
Joined: Sep 26 2002 Posts: 11377 Location: Much too far South
Yes Saints came joint top in 92/93. That Saints team would get MURDERED by the team of the last 5 years, so no drop in standards at KR thanks.
Wigan fans bang on about how their all conquering team was full of Wiganers - in that case your youth structure isn't developing players as well any more and the drop in standards at Wigan is down to your own failures, not some imaginary salary cap failure.
Joined: May 28 2002 Posts: 7398 Location: Isca Dumnoniorum
Rogues Gallery wrote:You'll find if you look back over the years that there are few of us that have been trying to educate the Super Duper League lovers, but alas they are so blinkered.
They are from the Eddie Hemmings school who believe players x and y are the "best in the world"
Like it or not Rugby League in this country has gone backwards massively since Super League came into being.
The World Cup was the culmination of years of competitive mediocrity and the majority will not admit it.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
What a load of nonsense. Just because one club (i.e. your club, Wigan) don't have as quality a team as they did years ago, somehow the WHOLE competition is inferior? Yeah right.
No one really believes Eddie when he says Wellens is the best in the world, and maybe the international team isn't as good as it used to be. But then again how many Ashes series did GB win when it was stacked full of Wigan players in the 80s and early 90s? Yes there were one off wins, just as there have been throughout SL. The difference is that the competition has levelled out (it still has far to go mind) so that no one team is certain to win the league from the start of the season, and the quality players are more evenly distributed around the competition. OK, so Leeds have won the GF two years running, but both times they were arguably underdogs to do so, and other teams including Wigan could well have prevailed instead.
Why is it that out of 14 clubs in the competition only Wigan fans are bemoaning the lack of quality of SL compared to 10 years ago... It certainly is a fairer system than when one wealthy club was able to have the pick of the available players (from league and union). Unfortunately Wigan appear to be stuck in this mindset that success can be bought, and until that changes the club will continue to fail to win trophies.
Joined: Mar 30 2004 Posts: 7779 Location: Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
Trimalchio wrote:What a load of nonsense. Just because one club (i.e. your club, Wigan) don't have as quality a team as they did years ago, somehow the WHOLE competition is inferior? Yeah right.
No one really believes Eddie when he says Wellens is the best in the world, and maybe the international team isn't as good as it used to be. But then again how many Ashes series did GB win when it was stacked full of Wigan players in the 80s and early 90s? Yes there were one off wins, just as there have been throughout SL. The difference is that the competition has levelled out (it still has far to go mind) so that no one team is certain to win the leage from the start of the season, and the quality players are more evenly distributed around the competition. OK, so Leeds have one the GF two years running, but both times they were arguably underdogs to do so, and other teams including Wigan could well have prevailed instead.
Why is it that out of 14 clubs in the competition only Wigan fans are bemoaning the lack of quality of SL compared to 10 years ago... It certainly is a fairer system than when one wealthy club was able to have the pick of the available players (from league and union). Unfortunately Wigan appear to be stuck in this mindset that success can be bought, and until that changes the club will continue to fail to win trophies.
Please go Back And Read again!
The elite players produced by this competition are no nearer (And IMHO further away) from their Southern Hemisphere Counterparts than they were 15 years ago!
SL and it's supposed increased competitiveness would prepare our players better and produce better results in the ultimate test, International Rugby!
Has it done that???? I won't insult you be giving you the answer as deep down you know the answer really.
It comes down to this
Success of the SL Competition and the success of the International team have almost NO bearing on each other!
This has been proved in the Premier League and in SL IMHO.
The Premier league is the "Best" League int he world supposedly but are the National team any better than they were in 1990???
Are they Hell !
Are the players in the current international team any better than their predeccessors at both sports??
Are they Hell !
Would the GB team of 90/92 beat the team of today??
Course they would! and if you fool yourself otherwise and talk about fitness then basically all your saying is that whatever team Saints/Leeds/Wigan have in 20 years they will be better than the current teams because their Fitter. They may be be, but they won't be Better!
Joined: Mar 21 2006 Posts: 2768 Location: Tamm Tanz Akademie
Jukesays wrote:Please go Back And Read again!
The elite players produced by this competition are no nearer (And IMHO further away) from their Southern Hemisphere Counterparts than they were 15 years ago!
SL and it's supposed increased competitiveness would prepare our players better and produce better results in the ultimate test, International Rugby!
Has it done that???? I won't insult you be giving you the answer as deep down you know the answer really.
It comes down to this
Success of the SL Competition and the success of the International team have almost NO bearing on each other! This has been proved in the Premier League and in SL IMHO.
The Premier league is the "Best" League int he world supposedly but are the National team any better than they were in 1990??? Are they Hell !
Are the players in the current international team any better than their predeccessors at both sports?? Are they Hell !
Would the GB team of 90/92 beat the team of today?? Course they would! and if you fool yourself otherwise and talk about fitness then basically all your saying is that whatever team Saints/Leeds/Wigan have in 20 years they will be better than the current teams because their Fitter. They may be be, but they won't be Better!
Joined: Mar 30 2004 Posts: 7779 Location: Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
RobotMonster wrote:Yeah, the team with 13 players
The Point my Friend, is that 15 or so years ago we had far more Quality players vying for International jerseys (certainly in the Backs that's why I highlighted them) than we have now!
IMHO they were also closer to their Aus Counterparts!
Whatever the was for I'm not sure but if you would like a resoned debate then expand your thoughts a touch further if that's possible???
Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock
"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"
[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]
Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"
I thanked him and went on my Merry way!
RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!
"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."
Jukesays wrote:The Point my Friend, is that 15 or so years ago we had far more Quality players vying for International jerseys (certainly in the Backs that's why I highlighted them) than we have now! IMHO they were also closer to their Aus Counterparts!
Whatever the was for I'm not sure but if you would like a resoned debate then expand your thoughts a touch further if that's possible???
AJ,
To highlight it even further you have missed Bateman, Ellis and Goulding off you list.
SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row Saints have five in a row
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