FORUMS FORUMS




  

Home Wigan Warriors The Bradford "legacy"



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:21 am 
International Board Member
Club Owner
User avatar

Joined: May 27 2003
Posts: 20508
Location: educating League Freak on all things rugby league
XBrettKennyX wrote:Well imo RL is a simple game.

If you get enough firepower in the forwards, it will lay the foundation for the backs to shine.


Nobby realised this at Bradford and imo it still holds. Now executing this plan, especially under the artificial constraints of the CC is hard.


As RU if taken to the extreme could be won by a well drilled set of forwards on their own, so could RL.


Are our forwards, Wires or Bradfords well drilled? From what i have seen certainly not. I do not either think Bradford in there prime were either.






Unofficially the most boring poster on Cherry and White.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:53 am 
Player Coach
First Team Player
User avatar

Joined: Aug 10 2006
Posts: 1956
I may just change my mind about you Jon, i have read 3 or 4 posts of yours today which i have agreed on but this one more than most.






Leon Walker Tributes

Image

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Bradford "legacy"
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:13 am 
Club Owner
Fringe Player
User avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2004
Posts: 652
Location: Living Room!
jonh wrote:I appreciate i leave myself open to criticism for posting such thoughts but here goes another one.

Rugby League being such a localised sport filled with basically players and coaches who know each other inside out and given the fact we as a sport seem to relish this fact rather than looking to grow our knowledge and embrace new thinking I guess it is inevitable that successfull players from successfull teams seem to at least be given a shot at coaching.

In the John Monie book he lists or at least the forward list the number of players that have gone on to coach at the top level who played under Monie.

I am a huge believer in the theory that you are a product of your environment, and i think that the Bradford Legacy is very visable.

Wigan, Warrington and Bradford themselves all have coaches at all levels that did there apprenticships or were involved in the successfull period at Bradford, and all these team continue to falter to decieve despite signing on paper quality players.

The skill level of the 3 teams highlighted is poor and rather the emphasis is on the physical side of things. Wire look a huge side this year, having taken on the Bradford Reserve conditioner at the end of last year with Jimmy Lowes.

Wigan have Noble and Foreshaw who cut there teeth in the Bradford era of success/laying the foundations of success, and Bradford themselves have McNamarra and another conditioning coach who came through the same system.

The teams on paper are far superior to the performances on the field, they all play a very basic game plan, and rely on an individual spark to fire them.

I think the Brian Smith and Bradford legacy is evident today and harming the 3 teams in question.

I would also add i do not think Brian Smith is a poor coach, he simply identified a way for the Bradford team to succeed and played to it, he is not limited to this coaching style but those who learned the game under the systems and in the environment he created are.


Well reasoned and something I have been talking today about, well similar lines anyway. Primarily about coaches being fast-tracked from successful teams and not having served apprentiships looking after various teams under various head coaches, regimes etc.

It's all too easy to install a 'fan favourite' or a household name and win some quick brownie points with the fans, but I think a coach needs to have served a rounded apprenticeship, be a student of the game and basically earned his shot at the big time. Cullen, Betts, Powell, McNamara, Lowes, Harrison have all been fast tracked into the (caretaker) head coach role and I think in each case have been exposed, and were not ready for the task. (I will concede that it's a moot point re Nobby in this group, but imho the root of the problems with us, which are a different thread are much deeper than one coach)

This is the real reason we are so very far behind the Roo's, no progressive thinkers and key coaches in the game.

Re: xBrettKennyx... Yes RL is a simple(ish) concept and yes the platform has to be laid in the forwards, as an old coach used to say, the fatties have to do the work so the posers can score their tries and look good.






Image
“The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand.”

“If you can accept losing, you can't win.”

“Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.”

Vince Lombardi

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:07 am 
International Board Member
Club Owner
User avatar

Joined: May 27 2003
Posts: 20508
Location: educating League Freak on all things rugby league
Look at the Bradford board it could be a carbon copy of this, complaints about boring negative rugby poor skills basic errors etc etc etc.






Unofficially the most boring poster on Cherry and White.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:46 am 
Player Coach
New Signing

Joined: Feb 27 2009
Posts: 28
You make some good points jonh and it can be no coincidence. All of these teams seem to make very basic errors and seem to try to play a style of rugby that doesnt even work. They try and play a forwards based game but their packs usually get dominated by the opposition. The game has changed and these teams forwards just look too cumbersome and slow.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:52 am 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Jan 23 2006
Posts: 7392
Location: Looking for a coach that can coach
McDermott has said this year it is his team and will reflect his style of play. against manly they threw the ball around a friendly accepted, against cas we went up the middle.

He has said he is going to play an expansive game- lets see. The team certainly isnt built around a Bulls mentality of the big 4 props thats for sure. Mac coached a Leeds I believe not the Bulls.

Not coming down today Alex BP?

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:48 pm 
International Board Member
Club Owner
User avatar

Joined: May 27 2003
Posts: 20508
Location: educating League Freak on all things rugby league
Simmy wrote:You make some good points jonh and it can be no coincidence. All of these teams seem to make very basic errors and seem to try to play a style of rugby that doesnt even work. They try and play a forwards based game but their packs usually get dominated by the opposition. The game has changed and these teams forwards just look too cumbersome and slow.


I think this is a key point. When Bradford were in there pomp the skill level was generally centred around the 3 players, 6, 7 and 6. While the other players were not dummies they certainly were not highly skilled players, i wonder if the lack of skills coaching is something that they have brought with them.






Unofficially the most boring poster on Cherry and White.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Bradford "legacy"
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:52 pm 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Apr 29 2008
Posts: 12860
Location: Ashvegas/Coventry
jonh wrote:I appreciate i leave myself open to criticism for posting such thoughts but here goes another one.

Rugby League being such a localised sport filled with basically players and coaches who know each other inside out and given the fact we as a sport seem to relish this fact rather than looking to grow our knowledge and embrace new thinking I guess it is inevitable that successfull players from successfull teams seem to at least be given a shot at coaching.

In the John Monie book he lists or at least the forward list the number of players that have gone on to coach at the top level who played under Monie.

I am a huge believer in the theory that you are a product of your environment, and i think that the Bradford Legacy is very visable.

Wigan, Warrington and Bradford themselves all have coaches at all levels that did there apprenticships or were involved in the successfull period at Bradford, and all these team continue to falter to decieve despite signing on paper quality players.

The skill level of the 3 teams highlighted is poor and rather the emphasis is on the physical side of things. Wire look a huge side this year, having taken on the Bradford Reserve conditioner at the end of last year with Jimmy Lowes.

Wigan have Noble and Foreshaw who cut there teeth in the Bradford era of success/laying the foundations of success, and Bradford themselves have McNamarra and another conditioning coach who came through the same system.

The teams on paper are far superior to the performances on the field, they all play a very basic game plan, and rely on an individual spark to fire them.

I think the Brian Smith and Bradford legacy is evident today and harming the 3 teams in question.

I would also add i do not think Brian Smith is a poor coach, he simply identified a way for the Bradford team to succeed and played to it, he is not limited to this coaching style but those who learned the game under the systems and in the environment he created are.


Great analysis that, never thought about it like that.






Dropkick Murphy..we actually saw and heard a mass of bouncing and scarf and flag waving to Dale Cavese that drowned out anything we could muster.. It stopped us singing our own celebratory songs, it died out seconds later when we accepted we couldn't be heard over the Wigan lot
Celebrations muted from us, job done from them. Most fans who slag them off are jealous their own club's support is nowhere near that good
-
sally cinnamon..Why not discuss Wigan? It's a rugby league message board. Wigan are the most famous brand in rugby league
-
Tre Cool..Saints fans are hopeless unless it's a cup final or grand final. Wigan fans are so much more loyal and passionate
-
the flying biscuit..Wires havent been massively succesful over the years, but I've spoke to Brian Bevan And he spoke to me and i wouldnt swap that for Wigans History, ever
-
Ande..on the TV i could only hear the Wigan fans with about 10 to go
-
Saint94..Every team is in your feckin shadow, we all know
-
FIOS

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:35 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 32114
Location: The Corridor of Uncertainty
jonh wrote:Look at the Bradford board it could be a carbon copy of this, complaints about boring negative rugby poor skills basic errors etc etc etc.


Quite. When McNamara came in there was a lot of talk about us playing a more entertaining and expansive style of rugby. If anything we're duller now than ever.






"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: rl
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:34 am 
International Chairman
International Star

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 8165
Very good post.
Thought Bradford were entertaining when they had Henry and Robbie at half back.
We have become more entertaining this year. Against Wakey we were awful. Played ok at Hull and played good rugby v Cas.
With the win at Quins all our tries came from the backs.
How many tries have been scored by forwards compared to the backs?
Last two games Carmont & Ainscough have scored five tries between them I think.
Agree though with Jonh's post but had just got the feeling we were turning away from that style this year.

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next





It is currently Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:13 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: endoman, Jason65, Sharpy_44a, TKOR and 176 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:13 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
0m
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41750
1m
Film game
BOSS HOG
7864
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
BOSS HOG
65121
6m
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
18m
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Jake the Peg
348
21m
2024 l Academy Scholarship & Reserves News
mattsrhinos1
233
27m
Round 2 - Hunslet A
dddooommm
1
35m
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
40m
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Wildthing
1
41m
Pele
dddooommm
4
47m
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
Recent
New Screen
Highlander
14
Recent
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leedsbarmyar
3097
Recent
The Bench - Kris Radlinski
MAC25
4
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1s
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Jake the Peg
348
2s
Sheffield away
Nat (Rugby_A
26
3s
Super League
financialtim
124
4s
Film game
BOSS HOG
7864
4s
TV Games - Not Hull
mwindass
3296
5s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
B0NES
5050
6s
Leeds away first up
BarnsleyGull
455
6s
Todays match v Giants
ninearches
102
6s
Round 2 - Hunslet A
dddooommm
1
9s
BORED The Band Name Game
BOSS HOG
65121
10s
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
21s
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41750
26s
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
28s
Leeds v Wakefield
Once were Lo
187
28s
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Round 2 - Hunslet A
dddooommm
1
TODAY
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Wildthing
1
TODAY
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
TODAY
Vs Warrington
Murphy
2
TODAY
Who is available
Droopy
4
TODAY
2025 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Week 2
FoxyRhino
2
TODAY
The Bench - Kris Radlinski
MAC25
4
TODAY
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
TODAY
Pele
dddooommm
4
TODAY
lilley
paulwalker71
6
TODAY
Huddersfield H
RugbyEgg
1
TODAY
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
TODAY
Goole Vikings
Rugby Raider
5
TODAY
Next week v Fev
Victor
5
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Off To A Winning Start Over the Huddersfield Giants
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Ronan Michael podcast
Bullseye
1
TODAY
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
TODAY
Todays match v Giants
ninearches
102
TODAY
Salford
Another Cas
16
TODAY
Stats thread
Shifty Cat
4
TODAY
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
TODAY
St Helens Record Highest Winning Margin In Super League As They Thrash Salford
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Next round of Challenge Cup
Bully_Boxer
3
TODAY
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Off To A Win..
272
St Helens Record Highest Winni..
431
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Ro..
718
Wakefield Trinity Mark Return ..
501
Hull FC Start Season With Big ..
310
Leigh Leopards Win Golden Poin..
568
Bradford Bulls Spring Cup Shoc..
781
Hull FC Overcome Brave York Ac..
775
Easy Cup Progress For The Rhin..
830
Easy For Hull KR against Valia..
759
Betfred Super League Season Se..
979
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
944
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1587
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
1376
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
1438
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
Sun 16th Feb
SL 1 Huddersfield12-20Warrington
CH 1 Bradford20-6LondonB
CH 1 Featherstone22-4Doncaster
CH 1 Oldham50-4York
CH 1 Sheffield14-28Halifax
CH 1 Barrow36-12Hunslet
1895 0 Goole V26-18Crusaders
1895 0 Workington10-18Dewsbury
1895 0 Rochdale18-16Swinton
1895 0 Keighley7-6Midlands
Sat 15th Feb
SL1 Leeds12-14Wakefield
SL 1 St.Helens82-0Salford
CH 1 Toulouse14-18Widnes
Fri 14th Feb
SL 1 Hull KR19-18Castleford
SL 1 Catalans4-24Hull FC
Thu 13th Feb
SL 1 Wigan0-1Leigh
Sun 9th Feb
CC2025 3 Bradford18-16Castleford
CC2025 3 Featherstone68-0Ince R
CC2025 3 Hunslet6-34Huddersfield
CC2025 3 Midlands10-46Salford
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
0m
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41750
1m
Film game
BOSS HOG
7864
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
BOSS HOG
65121
6m
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
18m
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Jake the Peg
348
21m
2024 l Academy Scholarship & Reserves News
mattsrhinos1
233
27m
Round 2 - Hunslet A
dddooommm
1
35m
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
40m
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Wildthing
1
41m
Pele
dddooommm
4
47m
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
Recent
New Screen
Highlander
14
Recent
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leedsbarmyar
3097
Recent
The Bench - Kris Radlinski
MAC25
4
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1s
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Jake the Peg
348
2s
Sheffield away
Nat (Rugby_A
26
3s
Super League
financialtim
124
4s
Film game
BOSS HOG
7864
4s
TV Games - Not Hull
mwindass
3296
5s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
B0NES
5050
6s
Leeds away first up
BarnsleyGull
455
6s
Todays match v Giants
ninearches
102
6s
Round 2 - Hunslet A
dddooommm
1
9s
BORED The Band Name Game
BOSS HOG
65121
10s
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
21s
Game - Song Titles
BOSS HOG
41750
26s
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
28s
Leeds v Wakefield
Once were Lo
187
28s
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Round 2 - Hunslet A
dddooommm
1
TODAY
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Wildthing
1
TODAY
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
TODAY
Vs Warrington
Murphy
2
TODAY
Who is available
Droopy
4
TODAY
2025 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Week 2
FoxyRhino
2
TODAY
The Bench - Kris Radlinski
MAC25
4
TODAY
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
TODAY
Pele
dddooommm
4
TODAY
lilley
paulwalker71
6
TODAY
Huddersfield H
RugbyEgg
1
TODAY
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
TODAY
Goole Vikings
Rugby Raider
5
TODAY
Next week v Fev
Victor
5
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Off To A Winning Start Over the Huddersfield Giants
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Ronan Michael podcast
Bullseye
1
TODAY
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
TODAY
Todays match v Giants
ninearches
102
TODAY
Salford
Another Cas
16
TODAY
Stats thread
Shifty Cat
4
TODAY
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
TODAY
St Helens Record Highest Winning Margin In Super League As They Thrash Salford
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Next round of Challenge Cup
Bully_Boxer
3
TODAY
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Off To A Win..
272
St Helens Record Highest Winni..
431
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Ro..
718
Wakefield Trinity Mark Return ..
501
Hull FC Start Season With Big ..
310
Leigh Leopards Win Golden Poin..
568
Bradford Bulls Spring Cup Shoc..
781
Hull FC Overcome Brave York Ac..
775
Easy Cup Progress For The Rhin..
830
Easy For Hull KR against Valia..
759
Betfred Super League Season Se..
979
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
944
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1587
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
1376
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
1438


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.