FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home Warrington Wolves FAO Dave T



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: FAO Dave T
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:03 pm 
International Chairman
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: May 05 2002
Posts: 19907
Dave, I was wondering if you could help me. I am curious about last seasons points against and it's relationship to unforced errors.

Do you know of teams who had a similiar points against, with say a five percent variable and their error stats? Conversely, teams with similiar error rates and teir points conceded.

The reason I am asking you, is that it appears you have access to all manner of stats.

Cheers.






Didn't William Webb Ellis pick up the ball and run, someone should really tell Rugby Union.

www.squadbuilder.co.uk

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: FAO Dave T
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:21 pm 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jun 25 2006
Posts: 14174
Location: Forum21
getdownmonkeyman wrote:Dave, I was wondering if you could help me. I am curious about last seasons points against and it's relationship to unforced errors.

Do you know of teams who had a similiar points against, with say a five percent variable and their error stats? Conversely, teams with similiar error rates and teir points conceded.

The reason I am asking you, is that it appears you have access to all manner of stats.

Cheers.


Stats on the SL website should help you.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:11 am 
Club Owner
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Aug 06 2003
Posts: 5952
Location: Edinburgh
I do use the SL Website for the official stats, it's a really useful site.

Looking at teams who conceded similar to us - I have gone for a 10% range either side of us, which gives 7 teams. Us, Quins, Wakefield, Wigan, Hull KR, Hull and Huddersfield.

I have looked at 3 key areas (IMO - it is worth pointing out at this stage that stats can be used to prove almost anything!), Errors, Tackles and Carries.

Errors (descending):

1 - Quins - 364
2 - Wire - 350
3 - Hull - 302
4 - Hudds - 289
5 - Hull KR - 287
6 - Wakefield - 276
7 - Wigan - 270

Carries (ascending):

1 - Wakefield - 4860
2 - Wire - 4958
3 - Hull - 5072
4 - Wigan - 5111
5 - Hudds - 5133
6 - Quins - 5217
7 - Hull KR - 5245

Tackles (descending):

1 - Quins - 8225
2 - Hull - 7807
3 - Hudds - 7724
4 - Hull KR - 7669
5 - Wire - 7606
6 - Wakefield - 7522
7 - Wigan - 7412

Some of my observations:
> The four teams with the lowest error counts in the league (all 12 teams) were Wigan, Wakefield, Hull KR, and Hudds, who were all within 10% of our points against.

> My general thought is that teams who make errors, have to complete more tackles, tire themselves out rather than tiring the opposition and lose the arm-wrestle. Things which challenge this though - Wakefield make 2nd fewest errors, make only 7th highest no. of tackles, yet have the ball less than any other team in SL. Is this due to the slow speed that they play with the ball? Do they not force repeat sets? It is also important to remember that number of tackles is not just linked to number of carries. I'm not 100% sure how Opta count a tackle, but a succesful offload in a tackle, may mean that 2 or 3 tackles are completed in one official 'tackle', and they may count more than 1 player in each tackle.

> Leeds make joint 3rd highest no. of errors in SL, just 1 per match better than us, yet have the best defence. They then make fewer tackles than us, and more carries. Does this mean that they force more errors from their opposition to get the ball back? Do they slow the play the ball down when the opposition have the ball so they complete fewer tackles? Are their first up tackles more effective?

> Whilst we are 2nd in the error count, the best team (Wigan) average 10 per match, and the worst (Quins) average 13.5, with us coming in at 13. When you link this to the points conceded, if we would have conceded 1 try less per match last year, we would have had the 2nd best defence in the league. Were these extra couple of mistakes crucial in us conceding those tries?

Overall, it is very difficult to say conclusively whether it is errors that cost us, or whether it is defensive structure, and both would have to be factors, as you can make the argument that because we make mistakes we spend long periods defending, not tiring the opposition out etc. but other teams make mistakes yet have decent defence.

Interestingly, despite our more conservative style so far this year, we are top of the mistakes table, and have made 26 in two games, which shows things aren't improving.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:18 am 
Club Owner
Club Owner
User avatar

Joined: Dec 21 2004
Posts: 23178
Location: Greatness
Dave T wrote:I do use the SL Website for the official stats, it's a really useful site.

Looking at teams who conceded similar to us - I have gone for a 10% range either side of us, which gives 7 teams. Us, Quins, Wakefield, Wigan, Hull KR, Hull and Huddersfield.

I have looked at 3 key areas (IMO - it is worth pointing out at this stage that stats can be used to prove almost anything!), Errors, Tackles and Carries.

Errors (descending):

1 - Quins - 364
2 - Wire - 350
3 - Hull - 302
4 - Hudds - 289
5 - Hull KR - 287
6 - Wakefield - 276
7 - Wigan - 270

Carries (ascending):

1 - Wakefield - 4860
2 - Wire - 4958
3 - Hull - 5072
4 - Wigan - 5111
5 - Hudds - 5133
6 - Quins - 5217
7 - Hull KR - 5245

Tackles (descending):

1 - Quins - 8225
2 - Hull - 7807
3 - Hudds - 7724
4 - Hull KR - 7669
5 - Wire - 7606
6 - Wakefield - 7522
7 - Wigan - 7412

Some of my observations:
> The four teams with the lowest error counts in the league (all 12 teams) were Wigan, Wakefield, Hull KR, and Hudds, who were all within 10% of our points against.

> My general thought is that teams who make errors, have to complete more tackles, tire themselves out rather than tiring the opposition and lose the arm-wrestle. Things which challenge this though - Wakefield make 2nd fewest errors, make only 7th highest no. of tackles, yet have the ball less than any other team in SL. Is this due to the slow speed that they play with the ball? Do they not force repeat sets? It is also important to remember that number of tackles is not just linked to number of carries. I'm not 100% sure how Opta count a tackle, but a succesful offload in a tackle, may mean that 2 or 3 tackles are completed in one official 'tackle', and they may count more than 1 player in each tackle.

> Leeds make joint 3rd highest no. of errors in SL, just 1 per match better than us, yet have the best defence. They then make fewer tackles than us, and more carries. Does this mean that they force more errors from their opposition to get the ball back? Do they slow the play the ball down when the opposition have the ball so they complete fewer tackles? Are their first up tackles more effective?

> Whilst we are 2nd in the error count, the best team (Wigan) average 10 per match, and the worst (Quins) average 13.5, with us coming in at 13. When you link this to the points conceded, if we would have conceded 1 try less per match last year, we would have had the 2nd best defence in the league. Were these extra couple of mistakes crucial in us conceding those tries?

Overall, it is very difficult to say conclusively whether it is errors that cost us, or whether it is defensive structure, and both would have to be factors, as you can make the argument that because we make mistakes we spend long periods defending, not tiring the opposition out etc. but other teams make mistakes yet have decent defence.

Interestingly, despite our more conservative style so far this year, we are top of the mistakes table, and have made 26 in two games, which shows things aren't improving.


You are Phil Clarke and I claim my £5

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:38 am 
International Board Member
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Oct 17 2002
Posts: 16415
Dave T wrote:Interestingly, despite our more conservative style so far this year, we are top of the mistakes table, and have made 26 in two games, which shows things aren't improving.


And that is the most depressing thing I've read on here for ages.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:21 am 
Player Coach
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 05 2006
Posts: 3434
Bad Boy wrote:You are Phil Clarke and I claim my £5


Dont start that crap gain.

Its so 2007/08.

We've moved on sunshine.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:25 am 
Player Coach
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Feb 18 2007
Posts: 4056
Location: On his way to living a happy life.
Lowes Out Hanley In wrote:Dont start that crap gain.

Its so 2007/08.

We've moved on sunshine.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:54 am 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2002
Posts: 13723
Location: Warrington
Dave T wrote:lots of stuff about stats
at "Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:11 am"

:shock:






WARRINGTON WOLVES SUPPORTERS TRUST ARE YOU A MEMBER?
//www.squadbuilder.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/Squadbuilder
https://twitter.com/WarrWolvesST

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:55 am 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2002
Posts: 13723
Location: Warrington
Bad Boy wrote:You are Phil Clarke and I claim my £5


To be fair, Clarke normally forms concrete conclusions from his analysis whearas Dave T has shown stats can't prove much on their own.






WARRINGTON WOLVES SUPPORTERS TRUST ARE YOU A MEMBER?
//www.squadbuilder.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/Squadbuilder
https://twitter.com/WarrWolvesST

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:16 pm 
Club Owner
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Aug 06 2003
Posts: 5952
Location: Edinburgh
SEB wrote:at "Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:11 am"

:shock:
Tell me about it. Trouble sleeping, think my last post on either here or Totalrl.com was about 5.30ish!

I was hoping a stats thread would send me to sleep, but no such luck!

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next





It is currently Mon Dec 23, 2024 5:48 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 243 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Mon Dec 23, 2024 5:48 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
24s
Total RL site closed
Wollo-Wollo-
7
31s
ONeill
Rogues Galle
26
36s
Transfer Talk V5
rollin thund
599
43s
BORED The Band Name Game
karetaker
63481
47s
Recruitment rumours and links
karetaker
3704
53s
Game - Song Titles
Cokey
40965
54s
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
moto748
21
55s
Rumours thread
Big lads mat
2596
1m
Film game
karetaker
6387
1m
Pre Season Thread
Blotto
17
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Total RL site closed
Wollo-Wollo-
7
TODAY
James Batchelor extends deal
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
Tigers sign wolves forward on season long loan
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
RL fans crashes my internet
[Gareth]
4
TODAY
Red Bull
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
Bulls TV
Wigan Bull
4
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Playing Squad 2025
Vancouver Le
13
TODAY
The Shay
Encouraged
7
TODAY
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of the Year at BBC Sports Personality Awards
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
BBC SPOTY Team of the year
muttywhitedo
11
TODAY
Pre Season Thread
Blotto
17
TODAY
Trinity Heritage Podcast Quiz
PopTart
3
TODAY
New Shirts
Kick and cha
4
TODAY
Sizing on womens shirts
WillCherno
1
TODAY
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
New Roles for HULL KR
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Questions regarding seeing a game at Bradford
Fr13daY
3
TODAY
Alec Tuitavake
Jack Gaskell
5
TODAY
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Jet2 has signed a major sponsorship deal with the Leigh Leopards for the 2025 Betfred Super League season
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Salford
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
ONeill
Rogues Galle
26
TODAY
Thirkill and Hood complete Hull FC takeover
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Why was our average crowd so poor compared to other clubs
Smiffy27
30
TODAY
NRL Expansion
Father Ted
11
TODAY
Pre-season
rugbyleague8
24
TODAY
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of..
390
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons..
238
New Roles for HULL KR...
233
Jet2 has signed a major sponso..
364
Thirkill and Hood complete Hul..
369
Captains Challenge for Televis..
668
England Women Las Vegas train-..
858
Opening Championship and Leagu..
1045
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
2406
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
1423
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
2010
England's Women Demolish The W..
1840
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
2093
Operational Rules Tribunal â..
1804
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
2070
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
24s
Total RL site closed
Wollo-Wollo-
7
31s
ONeill
Rogues Galle
26
36s
Transfer Talk V5
rollin thund
599
43s
BORED The Band Name Game
karetaker
63481
47s
Recruitment rumours and links
karetaker
3704
53s
Game - Song Titles
Cokey
40965
54s
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
moto748
21
55s
Rumours thread
Big lads mat
2596
1m
Film game
karetaker
6387
1m
Pre Season Thread
Blotto
17
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Total RL site closed
Wollo-Wollo-
7
TODAY
James Batchelor extends deal
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
Tigers sign wolves forward on season long loan
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
RL fans crashes my internet
[Gareth]
4
TODAY
Red Bull
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
Bulls TV
Wigan Bull
4
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Playing Squad 2025
Vancouver Le
13
TODAY
The Shay
Encouraged
7
TODAY
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of the Year at BBC Sports Personality Awards
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
BBC SPOTY Team of the year
muttywhitedo
11
TODAY
Pre Season Thread
Blotto
17
TODAY
Trinity Heritage Podcast Quiz
PopTart
3
TODAY
New Shirts
Kick and cha
4
TODAY
Sizing on womens shirts
WillCherno
1
TODAY
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
New Roles for HULL KR
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Questions regarding seeing a game at Bradford
Fr13daY
3
TODAY
Alec Tuitavake
Jack Gaskell
5
TODAY
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Jet2 has signed a major sponsorship deal with the Leigh Leopards for the 2025 Betfred Super League season
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Salford
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
ONeill
Rogues Galle
26
TODAY
Thirkill and Hood complete Hull FC takeover
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Why was our average crowd so poor compared to other clubs
Smiffy27
30
TODAY
NRL Expansion
Father Ted
11
TODAY
Pre-season
rugbyleague8
24
TODAY
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of..
390
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons..
238
New Roles for HULL KR...
233
Jet2 has signed a major sponso..
364
Thirkill and Hood complete Hul..
369
Captains Challenge for Televis..
668
England Women Las Vegas train-..
858
Opening Championship and Leagu..
1045
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
2406
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
1423
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
2010
England's Women Demolish The W..
1840
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
2093
Operational Rules Tribunal â..
1804
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
2070


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.