As i was typing my previous post i was trying to think about senior players in this team the likes of which we've had in abundance over the past few years and there are very few if any. God me miss Faz don't we! We need to sign at least one player next season who’s been at the top and done it all and has lead a team through thick and thin times.

Maybe this is one of the parts of why we are so bad? It's obvious things are working not out under Noble but we've just not got the players to force the changes instead we go on and on down the same path even tho it's clearly not working?

Spot on. Although for some reason I can't quite bring myself to deem it beyond Noble (yet).

Allegadley happend to us in 2006 when we got rid of Kear....was rumours off a dressing room mutiny and the one that got me was that Swain wasnt fit with a bicep injury......Kear goes and Swain plays next match.....we then went on a 13match unbeaten run and went to G/Final.

Hock was much the same under Millward. He was "out for the season" until Basil, then was back in once Noble took over.

A similar thing happened at Wigan when Greg replaced Raper, and when Noble replaced Millward.

But to be honest, it's difficult to work out what the common denominator was in all these situations, if there even was one, as every change of personnel is bound to be different.

One thing I don't think you can bank on is that ANY change of coach will be beneficial. Though I now have grave doubts about Noble, I wouldn't want to see him replaced unless it was by someone really good, and finding someone really good could be a difficult job.

One thing Wigan really can't afford is another high risk appointment - we've had too many of those in the past. The Andy Goodways and Eric Hugheses of this world were all disasters, and anyone with half a brain could see that they'd be disasters because they had zilch experience at high level coaching.

If we're going to jettison Noble, we've got to replace him with a solid professional who might not be flashy but knows how to get the very best out of his team.

My feeling is that the common denominator is the root cause of whatever ailes us, whatever 'it' is that's wrong with us s a club. The club management has changed and the 'it' situation hasn't got better, the coach(es) have been changed and they haven't changed the situation, players have come in and gone (overseas or not, good or bad) and they haven't changed the situation. On numerous occassions we are told of 'dressing room unrest' or 'player politics' that ultimately lead to some form of change. The only common denominator is the things that haven't changed and thats the players and club staff who have been there 'man and boy', maybe just maybe they are the problem. We keep saying constant change isn't good for the club, maybe it's time the 'constants' were changed, for a change?

Same can be said of Tickle?

A lot of things came out after that...Kearney not taking up option of 2nd yr due to Kears tactics,Carvell saying he had learnt more in 4 wks under Sharp than he had in the last 2 years...didnt name Kear but he was coach at the time.Players looking intrested again.

MG.

I'm assuming you mean people for example like Brian Foley and Shaun Wane. I love listening to Wane pre-match but would be a little uncomforable with him as first team coach.

You say its the players job to get on with the job, but its also the coaches, although we do not know whats going on in the dressing room.

Yes and No. Yes I think that collectively the back room staff needs freshening up and has done for some time now. No, because individually they are good blokes and I've got a lot of time for the likes of BF in the limited contact that I've had with him, it's just I think there's too much longevity around the back room and maybe they are victims of that. Same goes for the playing staff unfortunately. I'd love to see a team full of Wigan lads brought through the system but in reality that's a pipe dream, it's never going to happen, it's far too simplistic in modern day sport.
I've been concerned about the quality of lads that have actually come through our system of late, they perform really well up to and including academy level and then seem to bomb when asked to take the step up. It just seems they aren't equipped with the necessary skill sets and aptitude, I'm not saying that other clubs do it better because in reality they don't. The standard at academy level is rapidly getting past mediocre as you yourself will have witnessed. There's only so far toughing it out and ripping in will get teams, all too soon that will be found out by superior skill sets. That in itself is part of the problem, whatever 'it' is.