FORUMS FORUMS




  

Home St. Helens English Rugby union hampered by salary cap!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:22 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Aug 05 2002
Posts: 14094
Location: He can smoke a pound in a single bound!
Rogues Gallery wrote:We've got to face facts that we are not producing decent backs at the moment for whatever reason. Superleague is 13 years old and we are currently worse than we have ever been at top level.


An over reliance on overseas players and the ability in the past to raid RU perhaps?

The fact that he's coming out with this idea just as he has a number of potentially great backs in his youth teams is a damning indictment on him and his coaching IMO.






I'm not Jesus Christ, I've come to accept that now.


[quote][b]XBrettKennyX wrote:[/b] Once more the anti SC brigade, purposely or otherwise fail to see the point.

Thick as pig swill.[/quote]

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:19 pm 
International Board Member
International Star
User avatar

Joined: May 29 2003
Posts: 6311
Rogues Gallery wrote:Well where is it?
I'll ask the question again, how many top class backs have we produced since Superleague was instigated.

There's nobody more supportive of young players than I, regardless of who they play for, but the plain fact is that there is not enough quality coming through


Are there any better players in Rugby Union

The answer to that is we don't know.


Look at the Wales backline in 1995
Harris, Devereaux, Gibbs, Bateman, Sullivan, Davies and Ellis.

Five of those came from Rugby Union.

Are you telling me that they would not benefit Rugby League and GB team.

I don't think the idea should dismissed out of hand without a decent discussion or proposed amendments
.

Short term Wigan tinking.

A £100k contract on an RU player would be better spent on developing youngsters in link ups with St. Judes/Pats etc.






Image

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:23 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
eddiewaringsflatcap wrote:Short term Wigan tinking.

A £100k contract on an RU player would be better spent on developing youngsters in link ups with St. Judes/Pats etc.


even if RL as a sport still doesnt attract those players with the natural abilities to play in the three-quarters?

there are probably 15 players of each generation in the whole country to be a truely world class three-quarter, if RU are taking all of these, it doesnt matter how much we put into youth development, if the players arent there, we arent going to bring them through






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:27 pm 
International Board Member
International Board Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 10 2003
Posts: 29216
Location: Warrington
SmokeyTA wrote:even if RL as a sport still doesnt attract those players with the natural abilities to play in the three-quarters?

there are probably 15 players of each generation in the whole country to be a truely world class three-quarter, if RU are taking all of these, it doesnt matter how much we put into youth development, if the players arent there, we arent going to bring them through


Rugby Union doesn't take many youth players away from league. Our Andrew Johns', Darren Lockyer's and Israel Falou's are playing Sunday league football because playing a mickey mouse sport like rugby league never crossed their mind or wasn't an option because they weren't brought up along a few miles of the M62.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:34 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Saddened! wrote:Rugby Union doesn't take many youth players away from league. Our Andrew Johns', Darren Lockyer's and Israel Falou's are playing Sunday league football because playing a mickey mouse sport like rugby league never crossed their mind or wasn't an option because they weren't brought up along a few miles of the M62.


they take plenty, any player playing RU is one taken away from RL






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:35 pm 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Oct 17 2002
Posts: 32366
eddiewaringsflatcap wrote:Short term Wigan tinking.

A £100k contract on an RU player would be better spent on developing youngsters in link ups with St. Judes/Pats etc.


I'm up for debate on this one.
Yes there are flaws in the proposal, and I've always advocated pro clubs forming alliances with the local amateur clubs, but throwing money at young players does not make them better.

What Brian Noble is advocating is cherry picking some of the best Rugby Union talent.

I accept that we (as a sport) have to be able to afford it, and I presume that is why he was looking at the sponsorship and image rite route.

Surely by spreading the net further we have a better chance of bringing top class talent into the game.

I have some thoughts on that as well which I'll share on here at a later date.

I really don't think that we as game can afford to be so insular.






SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS

For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.

For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.

Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:48 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 12738
Location: The heart of gods Country, Haydock
Rogues Gallery wrote:
I really don't think that we as game can afford to be so insular.


Its not insular its about having faith and investing in your own talent.

In the past RL signed RU players for two main reasons.

1. RU wasnt professional so working class RU players who wanted to make a decent living had no choice but to sign for RL clubs.

2. The sporting apartheid sytem that existed within the UK until the mid 1990's whereby RL was treated as an outlaw sport, forbidden to be played in most schools, colleges, the armed forces etc meant that the sport was historically denied huge swathes of talent, and therefore had no option than to sign up RU players, athletes or even wrestlers. This has now changed with a genuine open gangway throughout society, and it now means RL for the first time can truly invest in developing its own young talent. Hence the huge national growth in children playing the sport.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:33 pm 
Player Coach
Fringe Player

Joined: Jun 28 2006
Posts: 647
The best 50k any RL could invest in would be to bring the best youth coaches over from Australia. It would take a few years to pay off but it would definitely work It's what the successful Olympics teams did, just poached the best Aussie coaches, and look at the Brit medal success as a result.

Coaching/conditioning is the area where Australia is streets ahead of SL and Union for that matter.

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:46 pm 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Oct 17 2002
Posts: 32366
donkey O'tay wrote:The best 50k any RL could invest in would be to bring the best youth coaches over from Australia. It would take a few years to pay off but it would definitely work It's what the successful Olympics teams did, just poached the best Aussie coaches, and look at the Brit medal success as a result.

Coaching/conditioning is the area where Australia is streets ahead of SL and Union for that matter.



It's not just that though.

When I was in us for the World Cup I had along conversation with a former Aussie International player, about the dreadful state of the English team and what could be done to improve it.

His response was that the many of junior Aussie players are "cherry picked" at a young age and sent by their clubs to specific schools which specialised in sport, Rugby League in particular.

Rugby Union are doing it now to a certain degree I know of one young Sale player who ha been "placed" in a University close to home to alow him to continue his studies but train on with the Sale squad.






SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS

For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.

For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.

Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row

Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:07 pm 
Club Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jun 29 2005
Posts: 10399
Location: Awaiting a ban.
Rogues Gallery wrote:Rugby Union are doing it now to a certain degree I know of one young Sale player who ha been "placed" in a University close to home to alow him to continue his studies but train on with the Sale squad.
Even before professionalism in RU, you had private schools like Kirkham offering scholarships to u17 and u18 internationals players.






[url=www.cater-bake.co.uk]Cater-Bake UK - Pizza and Bakery Equipment Specialists[/url]

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next





It is currently Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:56 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 54 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:56 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Trinity_lurc
2
6m
Game - Song Titles
Wanderer
41753
7m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wanderer
65124
7m
Film game
Wanderer
7867
8m
Round 2 - Hunslet A
Bull Mania
2
11m
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Dave K.
349
31m
Leigh h
RugbyEgg
99
49m
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
Recent
2024 l Academy Scholarship & Reserves News
mattsrhinos1
233
Recent
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
Recent
Pele
dddooommm
4
Recent
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
Recent
New Screen
Highlander
14
Recent
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leedsbarmyar
3097
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
0s
Wakefield Trinity Heritage Podcast - Season 4
JamieRobinso
13
2s
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Dave K.
349
2s
London or Goole in cup
Big lads mat
65
4s
Leeds v Wakefield
Once were Lo
187
14s
Recruitment rumours and links
Abe Froman
3917
15s
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
17s
Film game
Wanderer
7867
17s
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Trinity_lurc
2
18s
Super League
financialtim
124
18s
BORED The Band Name Game
Wanderer
65124
23s
Rumours and signings v9
endoman
29252
23s
2024 l Academy Scholarship & Reserves News
mattsrhinos1
233
27s
Squad for Giants
Alffi_7
30
34s
Round 1 - London H
tigertot
59
39s
This weeks disciplinary
matt_wire
1378
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Round 2 - Hunslet A
Bull Mania
2
TODAY
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Trinity_lurc
2
TODAY
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
TODAY
Vs Warrington
Murphy
2
TODAY
Who is available
Droopy
4
TODAY
2025 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Week 2
FoxyRhino
2
TODAY
The Bench - Kris Radlinski
MAC25
4
TODAY
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
TODAY
Pele
dddooommm
4
TODAY
lilley
paulwalker71
6
TODAY
Huddersfield H
RugbyEgg
1
TODAY
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
TODAY
Goole Vikings
Rugby Raider
5
TODAY
Next week v Fev
Victor
5
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Off To A Winning Start Over the Huddersfield Giants
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Ronan Michael podcast
Bullseye
1
TODAY
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
TODAY
Todays match v Giants
ninearches
102
TODAY
Salford
Another Cas
16
TODAY
Stats thread
Shifty Cat
4
TODAY
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
TODAY
St Helens Record Highest Winning Margin In Super League As They Thrash Salford
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Next round of Challenge Cup
Bully_Boxer
3
TODAY
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Off To A Win..
275
St Helens Record Highest Winni..
433
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Ro..
719
Wakefield Trinity Mark Return ..
501
Hull FC Start Season With Big ..
312
Leigh Leopards Win Golden Poin..
570
Bradford Bulls Spring Cup Shoc..
781
Hull FC Overcome Brave York Ac..
778
Easy Cup Progress For The Rhin..
830
Easy For Hull KR against Valia..
759
Betfred Super League Season Se..
980
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
944
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1589
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
1377
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
1439
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
Sun 16th Feb
SL 1 Huddersfield12-20Warrington
CH 1 Bradford20-6LondonB
CH 1 Featherstone22-4Doncaster
CH 1 Oldham50-4York
CH 1 Sheffield14-28Halifax
CH 1 Barrow36-12Hunslet
1895 0 Goole V26-18Crusaders
1895 0 Workington10-18Dewsbury
1895 0 Rochdale18-16Swinton
1895 0 Keighley7-6Midlands
Sat 15th Feb
SL1 Leeds12-14Wakefield
SL 1 St.Helens82-0Salford
CH 1 Toulouse14-18Widnes
Fri 14th Feb
SL 1 Hull KR19-18Castleford
SL 1 Catalans4-24Hull FC
Thu 13th Feb
SL 1 Wigan0-1Leigh
Sun 9th Feb
CC2025 3 Bradford18-16Castleford
CC2025 3 Featherstone68-0Ince R
CC2025 3 Hunslet6-34Huddersfield
CC2025 3 Midlands10-46Salford
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Trinity_lurc
2
6m
Game - Song Titles
Wanderer
41753
7m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wanderer
65124
7m
Film game
Wanderer
7867
8m
Round 2 - Hunslet A
Bull Mania
2
11m
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Dave K.
349
31m
Leigh h
RugbyEgg
99
49m
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
Recent
2024 l Academy Scholarship & Reserves News
mattsrhinos1
233
Recent
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
Recent
Pele
dddooommm
4
Recent
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
Recent
New Screen
Highlander
14
Recent
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leedsbarmyar
3097
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
0s
Wakefield Trinity Heritage Podcast - Season 4
JamieRobinso
13
2s
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Dave K.
349
2s
London or Goole in cup
Big lads mat
65
4s
Leeds v Wakefield
Once were Lo
187
14s
Recruitment rumours and links
Abe Froman
3917
15s
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
17s
Film game
Wanderer
7867
17s
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Trinity_lurc
2
18s
Super League
financialtim
124
18s
BORED The Band Name Game
Wanderer
65124
23s
Rumours and signings v9
endoman
29252
23s
2024 l Academy Scholarship & Reserves News
mattsrhinos1
233
27s
Squad for Giants
Alffi_7
30
34s
Round 1 - London H
tigertot
59
39s
This weeks disciplinary
matt_wire
1378
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Round 2 - Hunslet A
Bull Mania
2
TODAY
Hull KR at home this Thursday evening
Trinity_lurc
2
TODAY
After match tv
Big lads mat
2
TODAY
Vs Warrington
Murphy
2
TODAY
Who is available
Droopy
4
TODAY
2025 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Week 2
FoxyRhino
2
TODAY
The Bench - Kris Radlinski
MAC25
4
TODAY
Other Championship Teams
dddooommm
5
TODAY
Pele
dddooommm
4
TODAY
lilley
paulwalker71
6
TODAY
Huddersfield H
RugbyEgg
1
TODAY
Wigan Warriors - Home
DSJ1983
26
TODAY
Goole Vikings
Rugby Raider
5
TODAY
Next week v Fev
Victor
5
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Off To A Winning Start Over the Huddersfield Giants
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Ronan Michael podcast
Bullseye
1
TODAY
Superleague
BOSS HOG
22
TODAY
Todays match v Giants
ninearches
102
TODAY
Salford
Another Cas
16
TODAY
Stats thread
Shifty Cat
4
TODAY
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
TODAY
St Helens Record Highest Winning Margin In Super League As They Thrash Salford
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Next round of Challenge Cup
Bully_Boxer
3
TODAY
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Off To A Win..
275
St Helens Record Highest Winni..
433
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Ro..
719
Wakefield Trinity Mark Return ..
501
Hull FC Start Season With Big ..
312
Leigh Leopards Win Golden Poin..
570
Bradford Bulls Spring Cup Shoc..
781
Hull FC Overcome Brave York Ac..
778
Easy Cup Progress For The Rhin..
830
Easy For Hull KR against Valia..
759
Betfred Super League Season Se..
980
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
944
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1589
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
1377
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
1439


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.