Do you think Nobby would have wanted to lose Trent? works both ways.

The argument that the team is not more his than it was when he took over is stupid, i'm not even going to bother continuing with it.

Regards the improvement this is the point, we played our best most consistent rugby with the Millward team minus Brown and Moran + Dobson and Fielden in the last few months of the 06 season. In Nobles time we have never come near that standard of play since nor have we come near that consistency.

Our points for and against has decreased from 07 to 08, and i feel the performances did.

We have the same players making the same errors time and time again and we have the same failing "game plan" time and time again regardless of our opposition.

We as a team are not moving forward, we are not learning from our errors, at best we are stagnating, at worst we are moving backwards which i feel is the case and is a failure.

I said from day one i did not think Noble was the man to take us forward. I would say his time at the club though to date has been a success as he has done what we needed stabilised us. I think it is a huge gamble for his own career to take Wigan on in 09, one that i think he may well regrett. If the links to Les Cats were true i think he would have been much safer career wise to go there, a team much more suited to his style and away from the stoplight.

A poor performance tonight and a loss he is under massive pressure. A poor performance and a win gives him a bit of breathing space. A good performance and win buys him considerable breathing space.

If we do not performe to a reasonable standard tonight regardless of the result and lose to Cas next week then he simply has to go.

Not taking us forward?

ROCK BOTTOM to 3rd is moving us forward! What do you want? instant champs?

In the last 2 years have you seen improvement in the team?

In the last 2 years we've finished 3rd behind Leeds and Saints.

I've seen a team plagued by the salary cap and poor management (before Nobby arrived) move up from rock bottom to 3rd.

Last year, due to no one's fault we lost our best player TB, if he would have honoured his full contract he would still have been here this season, this has had a massive knock-on effect with the halfbacks trying to start up a new partnership. TB was a leader, and had the ability to win a game for us. We now have to live without that. Not Nobby's fault.

I've also seen improved contracts for young Wigan lads keeping them in the Wigan team developing them along

-Hansen (Wigan Acd)
-Lockers
-J Tomkins
-S Tomkins
-Hock
-O Carroll
-Precott
-Ainscough to name a few.

Not letting the youngster go is improvement in the past we've seen
-Briscoe
-Wild
-Robinson
-Ashton

All let go due to contract issues.

Additionally we've replaced under achievers with better players

MacAvoy was starting centre when Nobby came, now we have Carmont.
Richards was in the other centre, he was bad, now he's one of our best players at either wing or FB.
No more Danny Orr or Moron.
Players with other 'issues' are moved on-Brown, Godwin, Moron for the good of the club.

A bigger squad with more young Wigan lads involved.
No longer is the salary being breached
Scouting plans (already scouting for 2010 onwards)
backroom fitness staff added.

Release of other players who weren't good enough
-Tickle
-Calderwood
-Jordan James.

This is a lot of improvement since Nobby arrived.
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In 2007 we finished the league 12 pts behind the winner with a points for and against 267 less than the champs. In 2008 those figures were 14 and 553 respectively. We are falling further behind. And in a comp that the WC showed to be hardly earth shattering in its quality. Why isn't everybody taking this on board?

Good post...although everything is nowhere near perfect at the minute the club has improved since Nobby arrived and even more so since Lenegan took over. Some Wigan fans have to get in the real world and realise that Lindsey and Millward left the club in a right state and it is going to take a few years to rectify...

We are not in the same league as Saints and Leeds just yet. But we still finished 3rd and in 08 came a damn sight closer to beating Leeds that we did in 07.

We've come along way under Nobby.

Fair points but:

last season Wigan only finished 3rd due to Warringtons total failure in the last few games (which surprised many) by rights we should have finished 5th or even 6th, thats is a step down from the previous seson and the points difference was much worse.

how many games in the last two season have the team played well - winning by playing good rugby...not by grinding out results. 3 or 4 a season - nad manybe one or two in the playoffs

how many young players have really had a chance under Noble? Not by being selected due to injury to other players.

Ok we lost McAvoy,James,Orr and Moran yet we have Mathers,Phelps,Coley - a significant improvement? I don't think so.

Noble did well for us in the first season since then the club ahve not gone forward - we are no closer to catching up with Saints and Leeds and if Warrington and Braford get their acts together we could be even further behind.