At the end of the day we all want the club to do well and enjoy the success. This is a fans forum so we have every right to slate players and vent our frustration, and frankly if the players don't like it they shouldn't read anything on this site. Also it is fun to have these types of discussion. I would defend that right absolutely.
However one thing I have noticed about the British culture, is that you are either a hero or you are absolutely zero. There appears to be no middle path, and that seems to apply to this forum. The treatment that has been given to some of the past players has been truly disgusting (e.g. Moran). On the other hand players like Edwards are seen as having done nothing wrong, ever. Surely, in the interest of the club we should find a middle path.
Personally I think as fans, we have a responsibility to moderate our opinions so that they support the club, not tear it down. In other words, I don't believe in criticising individual players, other than to say they are not good enough, and should be replaced (just my opinion). I will also aggressively criticise them if I don't think they are trying hard enough, or have a really poor attitude. After all we are paying fans. Other than that I will not have a go at them.
With respect to Mathers, I am asking myself if he will turn out to be good enough - right now I doubt it, but I still think he needs time. So I will go out there as a fan and support him publicly, because he plays for my team, and represents our interests. The only guy who should really be criticising him, is the coach, and that should be done in a private way.
I will however have a go at the coach - because he is in the firing line. He has to get the tactics, player selection, and discipline right. If that keeps going wrong then to me he deserves criticism. Right now I think the frustration is that we seem to be getting all three of these areas wrong. And although we have been one game off of the GF for the last two years, I do expect improvement, and Brian has had enough time to get it right. Still it is very early days, and I will reserve my criticism until later.
Because as a fan sometimes you just have to bite your tongue in order to support your club - even when they frustrate you.
Memony wrote:Ok, first off apologies for sounding all preachy (if that's a word) here, but!
I don't know about other people, but personally I am getting a bit sick of all the personal character assassination going on of various people at the club, players coaches admin etc. Most of it is either ill-informed, opinionated, reactionary or just out unjustified. It's happening every year now and wearing a bit thin.
Mathers was pilloried before playing a game, the poor lad can't do right for doing wrong and is obviously going to be this years Vaeliki, Calderwood, Moran, Brown, Hodgson et al, and the next one chased out by the fans who can't accept that we are not as dominant on the park as we were in the late 80's and 90's.
The very same people that are criticising the fact that there were 9 antipodeans in the team on sunday are the very ones that are calling for the head of the only brit in the back line to be replaced by whoever.
Now for whatever reason this may be the right call, but it is damn obvious that whoever gets the roll will be next in line, we've seen it happen with Brown and seen it happen with Goulding. As a group, I don't think there is a greater expectation from any other fans, nor are they as quick to turn. I've no doubt the same will happen to Sam Tomkins when he has his first ordinary game, and he will.
The booing of the team is no doubt been brewing for some time, against Hudds last year was probably deserved, but I fear that it will become the norm now, with peoples character questioned at every stage. I've seen the words 'coward' used to describe Mathers which I feel is wrong on many levels, anyone that pulls on a shirt to play a game is not a coward, things are not going right for the lad, they may infact never go right for him, but that is for him, the coach and the chairman to figure out, not for fans to be brutally slating him...
Same goes for Bailey, another who does a lot more than people give credit for, and probably 2/3 of the squad, is it any wonder that they too are losing patience with the crowd? I'm not saying its right, it isn't, but I can see how they would think like that.
Our problems are deeper rooted than the odd player, there is an issue with leadership imho, that we've had since Farrell left, and you can't easily just go out and buy a player that can resolve that.
Yes, lets criticise and discuss errors, tactics, selection based on true form, potential signings etc, but please lay off the personal stuff.
Right lets start
Mathers at the start of last season i was looking forward to him coming playing here just come back from an injury give the lad a few games to settle in but the fact remains he had more red cards that tries last season (even if you count the playoffs),players went through him like a knife through butter and at times he didn't look like he wanted to be on the pitch
Bailey ok we all know he isn't a Centre but when bailey wasn't on the pitch last season our defence went to pot he does a shed load of work in that area he just needs to inprove his attack
I remeber when noble first signed for us and my girlfriends dad said to me he was chatting with a guy at bradford and most of the fans seem annoyed at noble for some of the decisions he makes and i think thats creeping in here, you cant argue with his record but it's the same old boring rugby week in week out we need second phase in our game cause at the moment our play is so predictable
[quote="Mark"]Great game of rugby league. Fantastic atmosphere, Wigan were breathtaking and dominant in all areas for the first 25 minutes, coupled with us making alot of dumb mistakes,then fortunately they brought McIlorum on which helped us back into the game. I thought some of the tries we scored to get us within two we're out of this world stuff. Towards the end we had to force it a little and we had a few things go wrong, i.e Monas kick on the first for King and Solomona going off who was causing havoc. Wigan were clinical in their eventual execution of us. Proud of Wire today and gave us a little glimpse to the future. Silverwood was awful as per, but I expect no less. Tomkins is a world class player and by far the best english player in SL. Wigan are a champion side and would be a worthy winner of taking our title as challenge cup. Good luck over the next month and a bit.[/quote]
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Phuzzy wrote:Jeez Dave, let it go. It's becoming an obsession.
What is you problem with what I posted? Some players seem beyond criticism (of which Lockers is one) while for others they cop more than they deserve and people leap on the bandwagon as its fashionable. That was the point I was making, which I am sure you and everybody else knew.
Dave
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Joined: Jan 24 2005 Posts: 1240 Location: Places Unknown
Good post memory.
No player goes out to play badly on purpose. And it certainly doesnt help with people booing at the first sign of the game not going our way, the way we as fans should react is to cheer our team on try to lift their game rather than pull them further down as is the case. I believe that if the crowd on sunday had "attempted" to lift the players then the result couldve been different. DOnt get me wrong they are professional and should play as best they can however we all know how verbal support can push you that extra mile!
Basically many fans seem very eaager to get on the players back at the first available option.
Mathers confidence is shot and who can blame him when you have 14,000 blaming you for almost everythig that is wrong with the team. The ironic clapping really doesnt help either.
Chances are he might loose his fullback spot now, if he doesnt how about we try a little supportive cheering rather than Bol$£cking the lad.
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