Your not listening are you?

I have never stated Brian Noble is some kind of coaching guru as you seem to suggest.

Ive have merely pointed out that his track record blows the theory out of the water that he is a bad coach. Do you honestly think a bad coach could stay at one club for around 8 years however long he was at the Bulls and repeatedly win things even though the squad had completely changed from the start of his reign to the end?

The facts are Noble had to rebuild the squad at Bradford and sign new players he did not inherit Elliots team and sit back and do nothing.

He was compliant in Caisley's policy of not investing in youth development but rather spending money on established players. Not a gret CV for a Wigan coach is it?

So you say he was not a coching guru but he won lots of trophies. Which makes him lucky rather than good does it not?

I said on ere on sat that sam should have played on sun.

What I fail to see is, how would playing Sam Tomkins be rushing him into the side? He's been on the fringes for two years now, he's what, 20? How old were McGuire and Burrows when they got into the Leeds side and established themselves? How old was Andy Farrell? How old was Shaun Edwards? The list could go on! Fact is... if you're good enough, you're old enough.

I bet if we put down on paper players younger than him who have made thier sl debut you would get a very good team a new topic mite get stated i think.

I'm inclined to agree. I've been stuck in the middle of when I feel the time is right for him to be playing SL, but after that shower of sh*te on Sunday, how bad could it actually be playing him? IMO he's head and shoulders above LuLu (who IMO should be utilized as a second hooker).

If Noble thinks that Tomkins is the "next big thing", like many other people, not just Wigan fans do, he should be playing regularly, very regularly in SL. Can't help but get the feeling that if Noble doesn't give him his chance, he'll take it elsewhere.

McGuire was dropped from Leeds Challenge Cup final side v Bradford or Hull.

Both Burrow and McGuire were brought along slowly at Leeds, which is something I think the majority of Wigan fans want with Sam.

I certainly remember them both playing academy rugby well after they had made their senior Leeds debuts.

I very much doubt Sam will get a look in at Hull. The same players will have to put Humpty Dumpty back together again in relation to what they want to achieve..... blah blah blah...

You cannot be serious if you think Noble won all the trophys with Bradford through luck. A couple of trophys yes maybe but not to keep a team at the top of a sport for many years no.

Why is it that all these coaches who come to Wigan as winners seemingly end up leaving with their ability questioned? Im not having it Millward won all those things with Saints through luck either.

When Lindsay was here he was blamed for poor performances and coaches failing to deliver. People thought when IL came in we would finally be able to kick on and challenge yet it seems since the new management has been in theres been endless rumours of player unrest.

I think the problems are much deeper than Nobles coaching ability. Coaches however good or bad they are should not have to teach pro RL players how to catch a ball and hold onto it. That is basic RL and players who are frequently dropping the ball are not switched on or concentrating for one reason or another.

could someone please tell me what tim smith has done so badly wrong last year he showed some nice touches, this year hes had a full pre season judge him later in the year not one game in for god sake. i suppose after barretts first ever game for wigan he had against warrington he should of been dropped, coz he did nothin that night