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Union internationals
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Author:  Vicenzo [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Union internationals
The big news in all the weekend papers wasthe try scored by Chris Ashton. Chris was of course a league player with Wigan and this illustrates the big problem with our sport. He scored the try in front of over 80,000 people and live on TV throughout the world. Now comes the news that Union will be making a bid for Sam Tomkins and a few others. At the same time this was happening Australia played NZ in front of a not very full stadium, a good game but shown on BBC on Sunday afternoon. Despite this we still find most fans are not bothered about internationals and I am certain that when the next SL season starts it will all be forgotton. I still say that without a credible international scene with regular matches and touring teams the game will continue to lose its best players. The 4 nations final showed once again how far behind we are in playing standards in all aspects of the game. They are quicker,pass and tackle better and play at a higher intensity. It is time for the authorities to take this aspect of the game more seriously, if not I can see it being stuck in the M62 corridor for ever.
Author:  Sandro II Terrorista [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
Vicenzo wrote:The big news in all the weekend papers wasthe try scored by Chris Ashton. Chris was of course a league player with Wigan and this illustrates the big problem with our sport. He scored the try in front of over 80,000 people and live on TV throughout the world. Now comes the news that Union will be making a bid for Sam Tomkins and a few others. At the same time this was happening Australia played NZ in front of a not very full stadium, a good game but shown on BBC on Sunday afternoon. Despite this we still find most fans are not bothered about internationals and I am certain that when the next SL season starts it will all be forgotton. I still say that without a credible international scene with regular matches and touring teams the game will continue to lose its best players. The 4 nations final showed once again how far behind we are in playing standards in all aspects of the game. They are quicker,pass and tackle better and play at a higher intensity. It is time for the authorities to take this aspect of the game more seriously, if not I can see it being stuck in the M62 corridor for ever.


I agree with pretty much all those points.

The difficulty is that the biggest RL playing nation couldn't give two rabbits tods about the international game.
Author:  His Bobness [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
Super League salary cap = £1.65m

Rugby Union premiership salary cap = £4.0m

That's a massive gap but even then only takes account of club rugby. England internationals like Ashton earn money beyond the wildest dreams of any Rugby League player.

If Union want any of our top players there is little we can do to stop them.
Author:  Mild Rover [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
His Bobness wrote:Super League salary cap = £1.65m

Rugby Union premiership salary cap = £4.0m

That's a massive gap but even then only takes account of club rugby. England internationals like Ashton earn money beyond the wildest dreams of any Rugby League player.

If Union want any of our top players there is little we can do to stop them.


Our best hope, sadly, is that they go to the NRL, which should soon be wealthier.

Remember Union requires much bigger squads and many of their clubs are struggling. So are some of ours too, of course.

They also play a huge number of international games to keep the whole thing afloat - would we stand for SL being devalued by playing fixtures while the best players were off playing... well that is the other problem, isn't it?

12-a-side? Doubt the Australians would help us out. 15-a-side with line-outs and collapsi... I mean competitive scrums? If you can't beat 'em :wink: Anyway we won the professionalism argument, even if it took 100 years. This is our reward :DOH: :evil:
Author:  barham red [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
I'm in two minds over the whole international / expansion arguement.

For me its at what cost. If it means a multi leagued system with promotion and relegation with teams from all over the british isles playing in front of big crowds then bring it on. Sadly what it seems to mean is that the RFL want this to spring up instantly,so if it was possible they would set up 14 clubs in 14 major cities in the uk, all would have new football stadia and would be branded as the London raiders, Birmingham bulldogs, Glasgow eels etc... They would then play in these football stadia at a 1/4 full at best and wonder why the people aren't watching.

The growth needed would need to grow organically over many years with teams being allowed to grow and gain promotion on merit, thus allowing fans to experience highs and lows and grow to love a club and feel attached. Creating a franchise system wouldn't work in a country like England as its so small its always easy to watch something else.

I may come across as small minded but I'd rather admit we watch a minority (2nd tier) sport that is based around the M62 and has a really good entertaining league then throw the baby out with the bath water trying to catch the uncatchable dream of being as big as international RU.
Author:  Big Dave T [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
His Bobness wrote:Super League salary cap = £1.65m

Rugby Union premiership salary cap = £4.0m

That's a massive gap but even then only takes account of club rugby. England internationals like Ashton earn money beyond the wildest dreams of any Rugby League player.

If Union want any of our top players there is little we can do to stop them.


Yup, and then the French RU i believe operate without a salary cap. There was a big arguement about the Heineken cup previous years whereby there was an uneven playing field due to some countries having a cap and others not.

Ultimately in a limited career time wise players cant be faulted for chasing the cash to support their families etc. Just a shame for RL that we are a northern working class sport without the big bucks to keep the top players if they choose to look elsewhere.

The only positive from an international game perspective is that the OZ RL team seem to get their players taken as much as ours. Our main negative is our lack of strenght in depth vs the Aussies.
Author:  Vicenzo [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
Quite right and the fact is Australia RL has a very high profile. You have to ask yourself apart from the money thing, is the attraction the fact that as a Union international you play competitive games against several nations in front of massive crowds whereas as a Kangaroo you play NZ! This was the point I made about Ashton, look at the profile he's got now.
Author:  Big Dave T [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
Vicenzo wrote:Quite right and the fact is Australia RL has a very high profile. You have to ask yourself apart from the money thing, is the attraction the fact that as a Union international you play competitive games against several nations in front of massive crowds whereas as a Kangaroo you play NZ! This was the point I made about Ashton, look at the profile he's got now.


and no matter how much RL tries to spread the international game we need to understand that RL will never be as successful having the international spread as union. There's no way for example that we will end up with quality RL teams in Argentina, South Africa, Italy, Ireland, Scotland (made up of scots not Aussies) etc

Part of me is thinking that the RFL should stop concentrating on expansion of the game in the UK and focus on what it knows works. On the back of the world RL should maybe stop concentrating on growth and just focus again on what works.

Sadly there's no answer to keeping good young players. We have to ackonwledge that in the next 10-15 years the shift may even go further meaning RL becomes more a feeder competition for RU.
Author:  Mild Rover [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
Big Dave T wrote:Sadly there's no answer to keeping good young players. We have to ackonwledge that in the next 10-15 years the shift may even go further meaning RL becomes more a feeder competition for RU.


If that happens you have to think it is over as a full-time sport. Clubs would either operate as Championship clubs do now or jump ship to RU. Heart says the former, head says it'd be a slow death.
Author:  Big Dave T [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Union internationals
Mild Rover wrote:If that happens you have to think it is over as a full-time sport. Clubs would either operate as Championship clubs do now or jump ship to RU. Heart says the former, head says it'd be a slow death.


Depends really. Clubs jumping ship would be an interesting one.

I'd be more inclined to think that due to the loyal fan base RL has in its northern heartland we may be sustainable as a sport but just with slightly lesser players playing the game. If the level of the players drops slightly across the board theoretically it would all be relative and the competition should still be competetive enough to keep the fans interested. Does mean imo that the RFL will have to shift their mindset though away from growth to survival.
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