Joined: Mar 10 2011 Posts: 1508 Location: Bumblescum, AL
For me, Larry B is right about Dobson on the kicking aspect. A large proportion of our play has revolved around his kicking game.
Leuluai // Dobson - each to their own.
My view - we couldn't have realistically got any further than we have. We may not have won anything or even win anything soon, but let's face it, to go up against every challenge that was before us and come out the other side is one hell of an achievement for the club. We had one realistic shot at promotion, odds on to go down, 1 season to dispel the myth of two clubs in one city, improve facilities (from pitch/turnstiles/stands/lights*), win a franchise, continue improvement team/youth/ground/attendances - all achieved and credit to everyone involved. We’ve now built a foundation to go forwards, it could be stronger but I can’t see how we could’ve done a lot more in truth.
barham red wrote:Baffled by the way this thread has gone...
Suppose back on topic of the Exiles squad and the benefits of Luluia and Dobson, Luluai isn;t a 7, he's a 9 who plays a bit of 7. IIRC in a fully fit squad he plays 9 for wigan and also played 9 for NZ.
Not sure if I'm reading the comments correctly but, Larry are you saying you don;t think Michael Dobson is good enough for us,? I could understand where your coming from witha number of our other players but this arguement I'm afraid I just don;t get.
If I understand you correctly you're saying we don;t have one player who is good enough, can I ask who you think is???
Think you misread me a bit BR, i was replying to somebody saying they were baffled Dobson was not in the Exiles squad.., Dobson is a good player in his own right no question, but he is not as good as Leuluai.., there is a reason Dobson cannot get a gig in the NRL and was not retained by Wigan and why Leuluai had played more NRL 1st grade at 19 then Dobson has in his career...and is a seasoned NZ world cup and tri nation winner and scrum half with the English champions who can also play hooker to a very, very high standard..(Mcllorum is the Wigan nine this year, Riddell last..Leuluai is first choice 7 , Tomkins 1 etc...)..
He is of course good enough to play in our first team but the question of whether he is right for us and whether we could have done better is very interesting and another thread on its own...even within our own heirarchy it is known that Dobson can be a liability in defence and sometimes goes "missing" in games of importance...on the whole the guy has a first class kicking game but is middling in other areas...Leuluai has a far superior game in every area aside kicking...
Rovers have several very good players and many i do take pleasure in watching but we also have some ordinary members of the squad and some who are well past their prime..and are not proving any sort of value for money imo..but apparently it is heresy to think this....we really should be in better shape for a club operating at the spend we do is my opinion...
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
being an Hull KR fan first, second and third I am staying with my years old belief that clubs comes first and I don't want ANY of our players picked for ANY representitive side. You can imagine the nightmare scenario of Newton, Galea, Vella and mason all picking up injuries and us going on another 'slide' (assuming we arrest the one we are in at the moment)
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Joined: Sep 01 2006 Posts: 5139 Location: Wall Street
rover49 wrote:being an Hull KR fan first, second and third I am staying with my years old belief that clubs comes first and I don't want ANY of our players picked for ANY representitive side. You can imagine the nightmare scenario of Newton, Galea, Vella and mason all picking up injuries and us going on another 'slide' (assuming we arrest the one we are in at the moment)
I'm not sure having those players missing would adversely affect Rovers that much (if at all) and in many respects their replacements may even improve the team and in the longer term could well improve the clubs finances.
Motto of the week -
It is the way of the weak to secretly bleat to those in authority rather than fight their own battles.
Gordon Gekko wrote:I'm not sure having those players missing would adversely affect Rovers that much (if at all) and in many respects their replacements may even improve the team and in the longer term could well improve the clubs finances.
I share that view but then again I dont live within breathing distance of Craven Park.
Joined: Jun 12 2003 Posts: 4022 Location: Kingston Upon Hull (East)
I think you will find that squad numbers mean nothing these days. Mcillorum (sp), may have the 9 shirt but if Finch and Deacon are fit those two will go in at 6 and 7. TL will go in at 9 and will be spelled.
TL doesn't have a great kicking game, as a 7 that is a massive role to take and it will show in the performance if England can trap them in their own quarter. With Dobson it would be highly likely a 40/20 or at least some kind of kick turn around would be possible.
I also have to disagree on the Blake Green comment. He has come in to a side that is struggling for confidence, he started the season brilliantly scoring a try in each of his first 4 games, one of which he ran 80mtrs out pacing some of the fastest players in the SL. His passing is IMO better than most in the game, I have not witnessed a more crisp pass than his especially when we go from one side of the pitch to the other. But as with any team if you don't have a good 7 your 6 might as well just not even bother.
Larry Billey wrote:Think you misread me a bit BR, i was replying to somebody saying they were baffled Dobson was not in the Exiles squad.., Dobson is a good player in his own right no question, but he is not as good as Leuluai.., there is a reason Dobson cannot get a gig in the NRL and was not retained by Wigan and why Leuluai had played more NRL 1st grade at 19 then Dobson has in his career...and is a seasoned NZ world cup and tri nation winner and scrum half with the English champions who can also play hooker to a very, very high standard..(Mcllorum is the Wigan nine this year, Riddell last..Leuluai is first choice 7 , Tomkins 1 etc...)..
He is of course good enough to play in our first team but the question of whether he is right for us and whether we could have done better is very interesting and another thread on its own...even within our own heirarchy it is known that Dobson can be a liability in defence and sometimes goes "missing" in games of importance...on the whole the guy has a first class kicking game but is middling in other areas...Leuluai has a far superior game in every area aside kicking...
Rovers have several very good players and many i do take pleasure in watching but we also have some ordinary members of the squad and some who are well past their prime..and are not proving any sort of value for money imo..but apparently it is heresy to think this....we really should be in better shape for a club operating at the spend we do is my opinion...
Think we'll have to disagree on the Dobson / Luluai thing but generally I agree with a lot of what you say. I think where we are lacking today is not with our 'star' players, Dobson, Newton etc (although some of our high earners aren't cutting it) but our 'other' players. I personally think we have players that can compete at the highest level but the 2nd string so to speak isn't the quality of the top sides and this lets us down.
I think we also lack severly in pace, both in terms of outright ability to run fast but also to pass fast. I do think green is an improvement on the latter point but our wingers seem like snails in comparrison to som top teams.
In some ways I agree with what GG is saying that missing a few players may in the long run be beneficial, if this slump has done one thing it is allow Scott Taylor to show he can cut it, if the team around him was performing he would be looking very good indeed.
Joined: Jun 12 2003 Posts: 4022 Location: Kingston Upon Hull (East)
Dobson, Green and Galea will speed our passing up but what we are missing dreadfully is an exceptional hooker. If our ruck speed was to be faster and the hooking role being done by someone like Luluai I have no doubt we would improve dramatically.
As you say the lack of general pace in the side is worrying, people like Vella say they've never played with a faster winger than Fox so why when he crosses that white line does he seem to be caught by plenty of 'slower' players?
Also the speed of thought is not there, watching last weeks interview with Tommy Martyn was interesting because even though the game has evolved since the '90s we are still not using the numbers game to our advantage. Too many times we go where the defenders are in greater numbers and we do not draw players in. Most teams now aim for the sticks with their forwards and that sets up a play on either side of the ruck, but while in at the sticks defenders are able to go on equal numbers either side so if we aimed for say 15 in from touch they would have to man up on the short side leaving the open side short for us to throw a couple of long passes or even like against Hull in the playoffs a kick over to the winger who will be in acres of space.
nick hkr wrote:Dobson, Green and Galea will speed our passing up but what we are missing dreadfully is an exceptional hooker. If our ruck speed was to be faster and the hooking role being done by someone like Luluai I have no doubt we would improve dramatically.
As you say the lack of general pace in the side is worrying, people like Vella say they've never played with a faster winger than Fox so why when he crosses that white line does he seem to be caught by plenty of 'slower' players?
Also the speed of thought is not there, watching last weeks interview with Tommy Martyn was interesting because even though the game has evolved since the '90s we are still not using the numbers game to our advantage. Too many times we go where the defenders are in greater numbers and we do not draw players in. Most teams now aim for the sticks with their forwards and that sets up a play on either side of the ruck, but while in at the sticks defenders are able to go on equal numbers either side so if we aimed for say 15 in from touch they would have to man up on the short side leaving the open side short for us to throw a couple of long passes or even like against Hull in the playoffs a kick over to the winger who will be in acres of space.
Hudds play like this very successfully and in our game with them the other week they just pulled us around the park and opened our flanks ups. We never seem to get in theses positions.
nick hkr wrote:I think you will find that squad numbers mean nothing these days. Mcillorum (sp), may have the 9 shirt but if Finch and Deacon are fit those two will go in at 6 and 7. TL will go in at 9 and will be spelled.
TL doesn't have a great kicking game, as a 7 that is a massive role to take and it will show in the performance if England can trap them in their own quarter. With Dobson it would be highly likely a 40/20 or at least some kind of kick turn around would be possible.
I also have to disagree on the Blake Green comment. He has come in to a side that is struggling for confidence, he started the season brilliantly scoring a try in each of his first 4 games, one of which he ran 80mtrs out pacing some of the fastest players in the SL. His passing is IMO better than most in the game, I have not witnessed a more crisp pass than his especially when we go from one side of the pitch to the other. But as with any team if you don't have a good 7 your 6 might as well just not even bother.
Nick, with the greatest respect you need to watch a bit more RL than just Rovers.., Deacon has started precisely 2 games of his Wigan career at scrum half both at the beginning of last season.....Thomas Leuluai has started 130 games for Wigan at scrum half...he is the scrum half end of....and is used on occasion at hooker to a very high standard...you think Dobson could do that...???
Green is showing why he is a second grader unwanted in Australia, plays for 20 minutes a match max , admittedly has scored a couple of decent tries and done the odd good thing but Sammut for instance scores better every week..you see similar in the Championship....a good stand off is involved heavily for 80...we need to stop lauding ordinary Australian players as something special, does nobody any favours.....and i think it is already clear he is another who does not have the "winners" mentality...
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