Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
Kosh wrote:And that's the fans fault, is it?
No matter how flat-cappy your feelings towards Crusaders might be, their fans are RL fans just like the rest of us.
unlike Wakefield, Halifax, Barrow etc, who don't have fans worth worrying about.
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Joined: Jan 15 2007 Posts: 11924 Location: Secret Hill Top Lair. V.2
east hull FC fan wrote:Anybody explained why Crusaders deserve a place above Wakefield yet?
I won't hold my breath.
How about you go off and learn a little bit about the sport of rugby league out side of your back yard before throwing ill informed criticisms around.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
dum-dum wrote:RL will never expand further than the M62 with such narrow minded 'fans', maybe it is just the novelty but I personally prefer the trips to both Wales and London t'Wakey and wish both clubs well.
Fingers crossed we don't end up with Kear.
Expansions fine, but NOT at the expense of well established traditional clubs, it should be done in ADDITION to those that have been the mainstay of RL for over 100 years. If I could be around in 100 yrs, I bet you any amount of money that Batley, Barrow and Halifax will be around in some form, whereas Crusaders and Quins will be a distant memory, one spoken about in the same way as Broughton and Ebbw Vale
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
east hull FC fan wrote:Anybody explained why Crusaders deserve a place above Wakefield yet?
I won't hold my breath.
I think there are a lot of positive signs coming out of Crusaders, despite what people say.
I think the international game in Wales has improved, hence our triumph to make the Four Nations, which has been helped along the way by Crusaders.
Looking at North Wales, the youth game has really come on. There's some great young talent there and people love playing Rugby League in Wrexham. There may not be many of us Crusaders supporters, but people in both South and North Wales have really got an appetite for the game of Rugby League. That's what you want for a club, fans that will help out and work collectively to make Crusaders work.
This season we've seen many young Welsh players coming through and impress, (Dudson, Kear, Flower, White etc). By no means am I happy with this season, but it has been a huge improvement in development wise. I think that's what Harris has done well since he's been at Crusaders.
It'll be bad if we lose Wakey, a traditional team in the heartlands of Rugby League, but I don't think they're offering as much as Crusaders. Their youth development isn't that strong. For such an established side, I would expect their following to be a little stronger, although, I bet people support a variety of different teams in the heartlands area. The RFL's clear MUST for the Super League liscense from 2012-2014 was that Crusaders, Saints, Cas and Wakey had improved stadia or had plans for it. The first three have, but Wakey are way behind with their planning. They're also in poor financial state, so are we, but Wakey are far worse.
I think given the RFL's motive and where they want to go in this decade or so, Crusaders won't loose their liscense before any of Cas, Quins or Salford (despite stadia plans). I would prefer the Super League to be extended. That's not going to happen though. Crusaders could be something really good given time and support. They can match what the Catalans have done out in Perpignan, if not better.
Love my Rugby League.
The game will survive in North Wales. Too much work and effort has been put in, to let it go to waste. We have an appetite for this sport and we'll make it work.
You're likely to see me in a Crusaders shirt, in a Warrington game or a Catalans game.
pmh wrote:How about you go off and learn a little bit about the sport of rugby league out side of your back yard before throwing ill informed criticisms around.
So you haven't got a clue either then? Glad we've established that.
rover49 wrote:Expansions fine, but NOT at the expense of well established traditional clubs, it should be done in ADDITION to those that have been the mainstay of RL for over 100 years. If I could be around in 100 yrs, I bet you any amount of money that Batley, Barrow and Halifax will be around in some form, whereas Crusaders and Quins will be a distant memory, one spoken about in the same way as Broughton and Ebbw Vale
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
GouldyCrusader wrote:I think there are a lot of positive signs coming out of Crusaders, despite what people say.
I think the international game in Wales has improved, hence our triumph to make the Four Nations, which has been helped along the way by Crusaders.
Looking at North Wales, the youth game has really come on. There's some great young talent there and people love playing Rugby League in Wrexham. There may not be many of us Crusaders supporters, but people in both South and North Wales have really got an appetite for the game of Rugby League. That's what you want for a club, fans that will help out and work collectively to make Crusaders work.
This season we've seen many young Welsh players coming through and impress, (Dudson, Kear, Flower, White etc). By no means am I happy with this season, but it has been a huge improvement in development wise. I think that's what Harris has done well since he's been at Crusaders.
It'll be bad if we lose Wakey, a traditional team in the heartlands of Rugby League, but I don't think they're offering as much as Crusaders. Their youth development isn't that strong. For such an established side, I would expect their following to be a little stronger, although, I bet people support a variety of different teams in the heartlands area. The RFL's clear MUST for the Super League liscense from 2012-2014 was that Crusaders, Saints, Cas and Wakey had improved stadia or had plans for it. The first three have, but Wakey are way behind with their planning. They're also in poor financial state, so are we, but Wakey are far worse.
I think given the RFL's motive and where they want to go in this decade or so, Crusaders won't loose their liscense before any of Cas, Quins or Salford (despite stadia plans). I would prefer the Super League to be extended. That's not going to happen though. Crusaders could be something really good given time and support. They can match what the Catalans have done out in Perpignan, if not better.
Easy to sort for Wakey, move into a football stadium, like Crusaders.
My concern is that we have tried RL in Wales on a number of occasions and it has never really taken off, ok for a while but then it goes pear shaped, meanwhile clubs like Wakey and others are left to rot. We get told by the propaganda machine that there are 'thousands' of grass roots players in the London area and how its been a success, yet hardly any of these RL fanatics can be bothered to turn up for the SL club on their doorstep (take away travelling support and you are lucky to get 2k in the Stoop).
We lost a golden opportunity to improve the game when the Sky money first came about, instead of sharing it equally to get clubs up to scratch, it was divided up by the few and wasted on antipodean imports on inflated salaries. If it had been used in a better manner, we might have been able to have a decent two tier SL that would allow for P&R, along with clubs coming in from non-traditional area and making it under their own merits rather than being 'given' SL status without having to work for it.
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Joined: Jan 15 2007 Posts: 11924 Location: Secret Hill Top Lair. V.2
east hull FC fan wrote:So you haven't got a clue either then? Glad we've established that.
You've already told us you have no idea about rugby league in Wales or how long Les Catalans have been in existence.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
pmh wrote:You've already told us you have no idea about rugby league in Wales or how long Les Catalans have been in existence.
Maybe you could enlighten us on grass roots RL in Wales? Which has been around probably longer than in France! He was talking about a team being created and dropped into SL having no chance of success, I pointed out the Dragons (who were created in 2001 BTW) as being an example of success of expansion in a short amount of time. Thank you very much.
Now, do you have any reason why Crusaders should get a license above Wakefield?
rover49 wrote:Easy to sort for Wakey, move into a football stadium, like Crusaders.
My concern is that we have tried RL in Wales on a number of occasions and it has never really taken off, ok for a while but then it goes pear shaped, meanwhile clubs like Wakey and others are left to rot. We get told by the propaganda machine that there are 'thousands' of grass roots players in the London area and how its been a success, yet hardly any of these RL fanatics can be bothered to turn up for the SL club on their doorstep (take away travelling support and you are lucky to get 2k in the Stoop).
We lost a golden opportunity to improve the game when the Sky money first came about, instead of sharing it equally to get clubs up to scratch, it was divided up by the few and wasted on antipodean imports on inflated salaries. If it had been used in a better manner, we might have been able to have a decent two tier SL that would allow for P&R, along with clubs coming in from non-traditional area and making it under their own merits rather than being 'given' SL status without having to work for it.
I honestly can't disagree with most of that - you can look at the past, and in that the RFL have made many mistakes, but where we are now, I think we need the expansion. Do we forever want to be stuck behind Rugby Union on a national level ? I don't think we'll ever reach Rugby Union's credibility on a national level, but we need to act now to improve our sport and get closer to Union. If we don't act now, I think we'll be as we are in another 100 years.
Its awful to get rid of clubs likely Wakey, and in a way I feel guilty for it, but I think its a risk as a sport we have to take and one which can easily pay off.
Love my Rugby League.
The game will survive in North Wales. Too much work and effort has been put in, to let it go to waste. We have an appetite for this sport and we'll make it work.
You're likely to see me in a Crusaders shirt, in a Warrington game or a Catalans game.
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