Joined: Mar 11 2007 Posts: 5659 Location: Next to Ramsgate Sands c.1850 in West Hull
Mrs Barista wrote:It's not you. I've asked if anyone can explain how this works, i.e. who has legal title on the stand, where the assets and liabilities sit, but no one can articulate it so far.
On balance with, as you say, these 2 somewhat contradictory statements, I'd say the council take out a loan for £4.2m from a prudential borrowing fund, which as I understand it is usually from the Public Works Loan Board, ie central government. So council owes PWLB £4.2m, and pays for the stand. Rovers and friends pay the Council each month the capital repayments plus the interest, which seems to be around 3% each year for the next 30 years (about £200k total a year @3%), which the council then uses to pay back the PWLB. Presumably the council actually owns the stand. In this scenario, the council bears the risk of Rovers defaulting. So in Year 1, the council owes £4m to the prudential borrowing fund, and if Rovers went t1ts up the Hull taxpayer would be liable for the full amount plus interest on a stand that's pretty much neither use nor ornament.
That's the way I see it too.
Sounds like risky borrowing to me. And we all know how much the public hate the banks for their lackadaisical lending policies over the last few years and the consequences it's brought.
Of course, no matter how much the people of Hull hate the banks for the way they did business and getting us all in this mess in the first place, they'll be over the moon with the council for borrowing and relending in what appears to be a similar way for the good of jobs, the saving of Hull Truck, the replacement of the withdrawn government funds for the new Castle street development and the new OPE houses.....
Hang on, it's for a new stand at Craven Park, you say....
Philip Larkin wrote:
There ain’t no music East side of this city That’s mellow like mine is, That’s mellow like mine.
Joined: Sep 18 2005 Posts: 8742 Location: 2017 City of Culture
WormInHand wrote:That's the way I see it too.
Sounds like risky borrowing to me. And we all know how much the public hate the banks for their lackadaisical lending policies over the last few years and the consequences it's brought.
Of course, no matter how much the people of Hull hate the banks for the way they did business and getting us all in this mess in the first place, they'll be over the moon with the council for borrowing and relending in what appears to be a similar way for the good of jobs, the saving of Hull Truck, the replacement of the withdrawn government funds for the new Castle street development and the new OPE houses.....
Hang on, it's for a new stand at Craven Park, you say....
Its comforting to know you care so much.
I have looked forward to the day Rovers got the North Stand project up & running for years now. Little did I know of the spin-off joys it would create in winding up so many folk at the same time. Absolute bargain!
Joined: Mar 11 2007 Posts: 5659 Location: Next to Ramsgate Sands c.1850 in West Hull
SirStan wrote:Its comforting to know you care so much.
I have looked forward to the day Rovers got the North Stand project up & running for years now. Little did I know of the spin-off joys it would create in winding up so many folk at the same time. Absolute bargain!
Can you really not see how this will be perceived to be crass in the extreme by the council at this particular time?
If the council announced the KC plans now instead of a decade or so ago that also would be unpalatable. But that was then and this is now.
Do you think this will go ahead? (Serious question.)
Philip Larkin wrote:
There ain’t no music East side of this city That’s mellow like mine is, That’s mellow like mine.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12672 Location: Leicestershire.
Mrs Barista wrote:It's not you. I've asked if anyone can explain how this works, i.e. who has legal title on the stand, where the assets and liabilities sit, but no one can articulate it so far.
Could, but part of the fun is watching you lot decide whether to go with the 'spongers' or 'idiots' line of trolling. Either will be in vain, but why should we make it easy? Also, the details aren't fully and verifiably in the public domain, as far as I'm aware.
Mrs Barista wrote:On balance with, as you say, these 2 somewhat contradictory statements, I'd say the council take out a loan for £4.2m from a prudential borrowing fund, which as I understand it is usually from the Public Works Loan Board, ie central government. So council owes PWLB £4.2m, and pays for the stand. Rovers and friends pay the Council each month the capital repayments plus the interest, which seems to be around 3% each year for the next 30 years (about £200k total a year @3%), which the council then uses to pay back the PWLB. Presumably the council actually owns the stand. In this scenario, the council bears the risk of Rovers defaulting. So in Year 1, the council owes £4m to the prudential borrowing fund, and if Rovers went t1ts up the Hull taxpayer would be liable for the full amount plus interest on a stand that's pretty much neither use nor ornament.
£40+ million out of pocket for the KC whether Hull FC and Hull City go tits up or not - at least there is a chance of recovering the outlay this time.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12672 Location: Leicestershire.
WormInHand wrote:If the council announced the KC plans now instead of a decade or so ago that also would be unpalatable. But that was us and this is you.
edited, etc.
WormInHand wrote:Do you think this will go ahead? (Serious question.)
Serious answer - Yes. Planning permission and funding are both in place. The club have worked too hard and need this too much to have a change of heart now.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Sep 18 2005 Posts: 8742 Location: 2017 City of Culture
Starbug wrote:A bit of friendly advice , now it has the planning and funding done
Dont mention it again until they start building it , that way you dont end up looking stupid as some other clubs have done
You are progressing slowly but steadily , quite often that is the best way , best of luck this year
Thanks for the advise and the kind comments, but its kinda hard when faced with a barrage of playground rants about it. We either have a dump of a ground, or its a downright disgrace to use public funding on projects like this. Hopefully, the bitter B&W's will stop ranting when the season starts (that's what normally happens) and we can just get on with the build.
You know, I may go on and revel in my "dislike of Rovers" but I'm not daft enough not to appreciate that we need this symbiotic relationship of our 2 clubs in this city. To that end I'm pleased you get this stand (if only to sit in the Golf at the South end on derby day) because it will strengthen your franchise app and hopefully will positively affect your crowds. That's for the good of rugby in this city, so great. (There, I've said it )
But I think the council have hung themselves out to dry with this, and I'm staggered they've walked into a situation that will attract the amount of outrage and ridicule both locally and nationally that this will. This type of borrowing in this climate to relend for this sort of project and with this level of risk could be political suicide for this council.
It's not the stand I'm shocked about (I'm OK with that) it's what the council will do in this climate to get it for you.
You know, I may go on and revel in my "dislike of Rovers" but I'm not daft enough not to appreciate that we need this symbiotic relationship of our 2 clubs in this city. To that end I'm pleased you get this stand (if only to sit in the Golf at the South end on derby day) because it will strengthen your franchise app and hopefully will positively affect your crowds. That's for the good of rugby in this city, so great. (There, I've said it )
But I think the council have hung themselves out to dry with this, and I'm staggered they've walked into a situation that will attract the amount of outrage and ridicule both locally and nationally that this will. This type of borrowing in this climate to relend for this sort of project and with this level of risk could be political suicide for this council.
It's not the stand I'm shocked about (I'm OK with that) it's what the council will do in this climate to get it for you.
Or will they. Really?
Philip Larkin wrote:
There ain’t no music East side of this city That’s mellow like mine is, That’s mellow like mine.
You know, I may go on and revel in my "dislike of Rovers" but I'm not daft enough not to appreciate that we need this symbiotic relationship of our 2 clubs in this city. To that end I'm pleased you get this stand (if only to sit in the Golf at the South end on derby day) because it will strengthen your franchise app and hopefully will positively affect your crowds. That's for the good of rugby in this city, so great. (There, I've said it )
But I think the council have hung themselves out to dry with this, and I'm staggered they've walked into a situation that will attract the amount of outrage and ridicule both locally and nationally that this will. This type of borrowing in this climate to relend for this sort of project and with this level of risk could be political suicide for this council.
It's not the stand I'm shocked about (I'm OK with that) it's what the council will do in this climate to get it for you.
Or will they. Really?
not really, just 12500 idiots who wear black & white.
You know, I may go on and revel in my "dislike of Rovers" but I'm not daft enough not to appreciate that we need this symbiotic relationship of our 2 clubs in this city. To that end I'm pleased you get this stand (if only to sit in the Golf at the South end on derby day) because it will strengthen your franchise app and hopefully will positively affect your crowds. That's for the good of rugby in this city, so great. (There, I've said it )
But I think the council have hung themselves out to dry with this, and I'm staggered they've walked into a situation that will attract the amount of outrage and ridicule both locally and nationally that this will. This type of borrowing in this climate to relend for this sort of project and with this level of risk could be political suicide for this council.
It's not the stand I'm shocked about (I'm OK with that) it's what the council will do in this climate to get it for you.
Or will they. Really?
not really, just 12500 idiots who wear black & white.
east hull fc fan wrote: 1 major trophy in 18 years doesn't make us a big club. On the pitch is were it counts and by that theory were no bigger than Sheffield! tarquin fuego wrote: I wrote this 2 mins before the game finished , you know why Sheldon Maylord ? because I know about RL ! Hoss pot HOW on earth do you get NILLED at Wembley ? When your coach isn't a winner at heart and Gentle is not a winner at heart . We were a pub team I coached for a long time and we won 95% of games because winning is a mental state driven by a desire to CRUSH an opposition. Did FC look as though they wanted to Crush Wigan and strangle them until they screamed ? NO RL is a tough tough game and Maylord She-dong you have no clue In fact don't ever ever reply to any of my posts again
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