The Goroka Gene-ius wrote:You would be an out-of-work banker if your business decisions were based on the opinions of internet fans messageboards, rather than discussions with the people who actually run the business.
So what more assurances would the club be able to give the banks about definite increases in gates to be able to pay back further borrowing? It's not rocket science is it whether youre from within the club or not, assurances cannot be given as to an increase in gates.
Joined: Sep 18 2005 Posts: 8742 Location: 2017 City of Culture
Big Dave T wrote:So what more assurances would the club be able to give the banks about definite increases in gates to be able to pay back further borrowing? It's not rocket science is it whether youre from within the club or not, assurances cannot be given as to an increase in gates.
Again, you are asking the question of a fan on a messageboard, my opinion counts for nothing. However, are you telling me that business plans that show future growth in sales (i.e. inceased customer numbers) are laughed at by investors?
The Goroka Gene-ius wrote:Again, you are asking the question of a fan on a messageboard, my opinion counts for nothing. However, are you telling me that business plans that show future growth in sales (i.e. inceased customer numbers) are laughed at by investors?
Again, why are fans never qualified business people. Youre doing a fair few people a dis-service on here.
I'm saying that business plans that show future growth will be questioned as to how those forecasts were made. I could go to a bank and say that i turned over 10000 units this year and am predicting i turnover 100000 units next year so can i borrow £5mill please. They will want to know on what basis i'm predicting my growth, it cannot just be a flimsy estimate such as increasing the opportunity like extending a stand, especially when the current product doesnt sell out and the estimated sales has never been regularly hit.
Joined: Sep 18 2005 Posts: 8742 Location: 2017 City of Culture
Big Dave T wrote:Again, why are fans never qualified business people. Youre doing a fair few people a dis-service on here.
I'm saying that business plans that show future growth will be questioned as to how those forecasts were made. I could go to a bank and say that i turned over 10000 units this year and am predicting i turnover 100000 units next year so can i borrow £5mill please. They will want to know on what basis i'm predicting my growth, it cannot just be a flimsy estimate such as increasing the opportunity like extending a stand, especially when the current product doesnt sell out and the estimated sales has never been regularly hit.
I don't believe I'm doing anybody a disservice, or indeed questioning anyone's business acumen. You ask a question which can only realistically be answered by the people who run Hull KR, not by its supporters regardless of their business ability (or lack of).
Now, I'm no marketing genius, but the growth in crowd required by Rovers to hit the widely quoted break-even figure is a mere 17.3%. That is in no way unrealistic with the correct strategy, and of course the right product being offered up on the pitch. (I will forgive you if you don't understand that last bit! ).
The Goroka Gene-ius wrote:I don't believe I'm doing anybody a disservice, or indeed questioning anyone's business acumen. You ask a question which can only realistically be answered by the people who run Hull KR, not by its supporters regardless of their business ability (or lack of).
Now, I'm no marketing genius, but the growth in crowd required by Rovers to hit the widely quoted break-even figure is a mere 17.3%. That is in no way unrealistic with the correct strategy, and of course the right product being offered up on the pitch. (I will forgive you if you don't understand that last bit! ).
Guess we'll agree to disagree on your first point. We may not have all of the information that the insiders of the club have but we do have enough information to make educated assumptions about a fair few things. The facts i listed like the club not currently selling out, the club needing to average 10k to break even and the club never ever regularly achieving that figure are all pretty important factors to influence the situation. I guess the one thing missing is what kind of strategy and other factors Rovers are including to make the 17.3% rise realistic. Hudge in the papers has started to talk more about becoming a sustainable business and consolidating and i'm making an educated guess that it may be performances on the pitch and recruitment that suffer in the short term. I may be wrong but we'll see. Guess that might be the hit needed to take to ensure Rovers long term financial stability. The big question is whether that fits with getting 10k per game. Additional to the 10k per game which is likely to make you stable, how many more are needed through those new turnstyles to pay off the mounting debt?
Joined: Sep 18 2005 Posts: 8742 Location: 2017 City of Culture
Big Dave T wrote::D
Guess we'll agree to disagree on your first point. We may not have all of the information that the insiders of the club have but we do have enough information to make educated assumptions about a fair few things. The facts i listed like the club not currently selling out, the club needing to average 10k to break even and the club never ever regularly achieving that figure are all pretty important factors to influence the situation. I guess the one thing missing is what kind of strategy and other factors Rovers are including to make the 17.3% rise realistic. Hudge in the papers has started to talk more about becoming a sustainable business and consolidating and i'm making an educated guess that it may be performances on the pitch and recruitment that suffer in the short term. I may be wrong but we'll see. Guess that might be the hit needed to take to ensure Rovers long term financial stability. The big question is whether that fits with getting 10k per game. Additional to the 10k per game which is likely to make you stable, how many more are needed through those new turnstyles to pay off the mounting debt?
The club sells out areas of the ground which are "good standard" accomodation, i.e. East Stand & RM Stand for virtually all SL games. It's unlikely that we can attract new supporters when all we can offer is a view behind the sticks (or behind the docks in the case of the South Stand!). By increasing the capacity of the East Stand, this will allow for a limited "walk up" to still get a decent pitchside view. I think Rovers should then stop selling tickets to home supporters for the North Stand, and offer the whole stand to visiting clubs (including Hull). The South Stand should only be used as an overspill when away teams require more than 1,200 tickets, and in my opinion, never be priced higher than a tenner.
To answer your final question, 10001! (although the timescale would obviously require some negotiation!).
The Goroka Gene-ius wrote:The club sells out areas of the ground which are "good standard" accomodation, i.e. East Stand & RM Stand for virtually all SL games. It's unlikely that we can attract new supporters when all we can offer is a view behind the sticks (or behind the docks in the case of the South Stand!). By increasing the capacity of the East Stand, this will allow for a limited "walk up" to still get a decent pitchside view. I think Rovers should then stop selling tickets to home supporters for the North Stand, and offer the whole stand to visiting clubs (including Hull). The South Stand should only be used as an overspill when away teams require more than 1,200 tickets, and in my opinion, never be priced higher than a tenner.
To answer your final question, 10001! (although the timescale would obviously require some negotiation!).
Sounds sensible. I just have my doubts i guess about how many additional Rovers fans there are out there that would suddenly start turning up.
Joined: Sep 18 2005 Posts: 8742 Location: 2017 City of Culture
Big Dave T wrote::D
Sounds sensible. I just have my doubts i guess about how many additional Rovers fans there are out there that would suddenly start turning up.
Fair comment. However, given that RL is now more popular than the 80's you cannot put a ceiling on Rovers potential based on historical figures. For example, Hull's biggest ever 3 averages are 2007 (14,606), 2008 (13,432) & 2009 (13,244) (bit of a mini slump there that needs addressing! )
Rovers are never going to match those figures, but a 10-11,000 average is certainly acheiveable (in my humble opinion of course).
The Goroka Gene-ius wrote:Fair comment. However, given that RL is now more popular than the 80's you cannot put a ceiling on Rovers potential based on historical figures. For example, Hull's biggest ever 3 averages are 2007 (14,606), 2008 (13,432) & 2009 (13,244) (bit of a mini slump there that needs addressing! )
Rovers are never going to match those figures, but a 10-11,000 average is certainly acheiveable (in my humble opinion of course).
Maybe it is. I hope it happens, as i've said elsewhere, i'd miss the derbys if they didnt happen anymore.
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