Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:30 am
Mild Rover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12671 Location: Leicestershire.
Kingmaker wrote:Hopefully Mason will come good, but whilst we perform like this, the question of whether he was signed at the expense of 2, maybe 3 less 'glamorous' players that might have provided some valuable squad depth, will always crop up.
It hasn't really been an option for Rovers to do that. The 8 club-trained players rule means buying in that extra depth (and presumably pushing another youngster or two out of the top 25 earners) isn't an option. Clubs of longer SL standing tend to have more quality-experienced-expensive club-trained players, so have more of a choice in structuring their squad.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:35 am
Mrs Barista
International Board Member
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
Mild Rover wrote:That's fair enough, but I think the signings we made were logical from a purely rugby perspective. We were well drilled, but also predictable and a bit one-paced. Green's arrival would give us new options alongside Dobson, while Mason would add size, energy and aggression to the (sometimes lightweight) efficiency of our existing pack. Hall would create more options in the back 5.
Unfortunately Green only played twice alongside Dobson - when things looked okay-ish. Turns out that we can't cope very well without arguably our best and certainly most pivotal player. That reliance on one player is a weakness and one Rovers are clearly suffering from now. I'm not quite sure why the pack no longer looks well drilled. But you need to be doing the basics right before you can add the spectacular, so I don't think Mason's muted performances are a major concern in isolation. The slow/stationary defensive line and lack of basic go-forward could/will be a major problem even when Dobson returns.
Agree with that. Mason will come very good IMO. Rovers biggest concern ATM aside from Dobson (who will be back shortly anyway) is that the only miss in the front row is Vella and this is where you're getting caught short. What happened to Wheeldon - is he injured? By all accounts he was very good in the games he played in. Are the 4 selected in front of him better?
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:41 am
R.B.A
Moderator
Joined: Apr 06 2004 Posts: 4040
If all of our forwards played with the vigour of Scott Taylor then our problems would disappear overnight. In fairness though i thought Joel Clinton was good last night.
"Dream Big..Work Hard".................. Sarah Storey, Paralympic Legend.
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:45 am
Mild Rover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12671 Location: Leicestershire.
Mrs Barista wrote:Agree with that. Mason will come very good IMO. Rovers biggest concern ATM aside from Dobson (who will be back shortly anyway) is that the only miss in the front row is Vella and this is where you're getting caught short. What happened to Wheeldon - is he injured? By all accounts he was very good in the games he played in. Are the 4 selected in front of him better?
Wheeldon has looked quite good from what I've seen this season - but not to the point that his replacement of Clinton, Netherton, Watts or Lovegrove would turn the tide. The pack has, in the past, won contests up front as a unit, they are now getting beat as a group. I think it is more strutctural than swapping bodies can solve.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:49 am
Mrs Barista
International Board Member
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
R.B.A wrote:If all of our forwards played with the vigour of Scott Taylor then our problems would disappear overnight. In fairness though i thought Joel Clinton was good last night.
As you said yourself this is thread drift so we won't go there-RW
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:22 am
Gordon Gekko
Player Coach
Joined: Sep 01 2006 Posts: 5139 Location: Wall Street
Mild Rover wrote:It hasn't really been an option for Rovers to do that. The 8 club-trained players rule means buying in that extra depth (and presumably pushing another youngster or two out of the top 25 earners) isn't an option. Clubs of longer SL standing tend to have more quality-experienced-expensive club-trained players, so have more of a choice in structuring their squad.
Not that old chestnut.
Rovers by choice chose not to invest in thier youth structure when in NL1 so it's no good bleating about the club trained rules now. Clubs such a Cas,Huddersfield,Salford and newly promoted Widnes made sure their YD program was every bit as much thought of in NL1 as it was in SL.
Rovers club trained problems are self inflicted.
Rovers club trained problem is self inflicted.
Motto of the week -
It is the way of the weak to secretly bleat to those in authority rather than fight their own battles.
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:51 am
Staffs FC
Club Coach
Joined: Feb 12 2005 Posts: 13126 Location: East Staffordshire
Rovers are missing their key play maker and their best attacking forward. This hasn't happened before while those two players have been at the club. The drop in form is inevitable and it illustrates how a coach is only as good as the players he has at his disposal at any given time. Confidence comes from winning and winning comes from having your best players out on the pitch playing. It's not rocket science despite all the nuances and ulterior motives some fans spend their lives dreaming up.
"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - Peter Sterling
Adam Pearson said not wrote:I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:57 am
Mild Rover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12671 Location: Leicestershire.
Gordon Gekko wrote:Not that old chestnut.
Rovers by choice chose not to invest in thier youth structure when in NL1 so it's no good bleating about the club trained rules now. Clubs such a Cas,Huddersfield,Salford and newly promoted Widnes made sure their YD program was every bit as much thought of in NL1 as it was in SL.
Rovers club trained problems are self inflicted.
Rovers club trained problem is self inflicted.
1. Rovers got promoted because they invested in their first team. Without that promotion, investment in youth would not have served Rovers interest in a significant way. Widnes got awarded a licence in part because of their investment in developing players. They responded successfully to the incentives that exist now, just as Rovers did back then. None of the Tigers, Giants and Reds spent more than a season in the second tier after their relegations from SL, iirc.
2. It wasn't a complaint - it was simply pointing out the reality of the situation.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:02 am
R.B.A
Moderator
Joined: Apr 06 2004 Posts: 4040
Gordon Gekko wrote:Not that old chestnut.
Rovers by choice chose not to invest in thier youth structure when in NL1 so it's no good bleating about the club trained rules now. Clubs such a Cas,Huddersfield,Salford and newly promoted Widnes made sure their YD program was every bit as much thought of in NL1 as it was in SL.
Rovers club trained problems are self inflicted.
Rovers club trained problem is self inflicted.
What you say is true but is also pretty harsh. Cas, Huddersfield and Salford only had brief stints in the National League so their youth programmes were not really disrupted. Widnes by their admission have invested heavily in their youth because the RFL told them to as a key criteria to Super League admission. I bet they wouldnt have if it was straight promotion/relegation. They would have invested in their first team just as Rovers did. It is also worth noting that 3 of the players from Rovers inaugural Academy side in 2008 played last night (Watts, Taylor and Latus) so we are clearly showing a commitment and ability to bring kids through the ranks. As an aside, how many Hull FC Academy players of the year have Rovers taken off their hands in the past 4 years? If we miss out on them at 15/16 we are trying to get them here at 18/19/20/21. Surely this shows a desire to bring quality youngsters into the club.
"Dream Big..Work Hard".................. Sarah Storey, Paralympic Legend.
Post subject: Re: just a thought about the 'decline' at the minute
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:21 am
Gordon Gekko
Player Coach
Joined: Sep 01 2006 Posts: 5139 Location: Wall Street
Mild Rover wrote:1. Rovers got promoted because they invested in their first team. Without that promotion, investment in youth would not have served Rovers interest in a significant way. Widnes got awarded a licence in part because of their investment in developing players. They responded successfully to the incentives that exist now, just as Rovers did back then. None of the Tigers, Giants and Reds spent more than a season in the second tier after their relegations from SL, iirc.
2. It wasn't a complaint - it was simply pointing out the reality of the situation.
Fact is mate no matter how you dress things up Rovers problems are of their own making and unless there is a big change of direction they will get worse.
Motto of the week -
It is the way of the weak to secretly bleat to those in authority rather than fight their own battles.
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