Joined: Jun 08 2008 Posts: 2212 Location: Purgatory
Dave K. wrote:Just a bit of fun mate, you know that, there is a post on the Rovers forum, that is comedy gold, the hatred of all things Hull is great, loads of post when we lose then nothing when we win, Connor needs to be sold, Hull getting all the decisions, Pearson leaving and saying we were full strength against Warrington and saying it should be an easy win in a mocking way (That backfired). I love reading some of the things on there, would love to post but I'd better banned straight away, as nothing can be challenged from a fan of another club.
Back on topic, agree with you, forwards we always seem to produce, but backs and particulary halfbacks just don't seem to kick on, I really thought one of Dean and HTW would make it.
I think we're victims of our own success. In my opinion Abdul is a better halfback than Dec Patton or Richardson neither of which do I think would do half as good a job as Jordan has at London. In my experience, our best youth come through when the first team is awful. The likes of Horne and Cooke came through when we had no option but to play them. Enough game time and responsibility can transform a player but in recent years our first team has been too strong to allow that to happen. It's much less of a risk to blood a forward than it is a back, as an error from a forward usually has less consequences. Shaul, Hall, Lineham, Lynne, Crooks, and Briscoe are all high end performers in the top league and we produced them all. The emergence of Connor Wynn looks exciting if a bit tragic that he plays in a position we're already so strong in. Also I know he's a hooker, but I think there's very few other SL sides that would've give Litten so little game time.
A current 1 - 13 of current Super League players that have come through the Hull academy could compete with the equivalent of any other SL side in my opinion.
The words of fools mean nothing to one who resides in the truth.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12664 Location: Leicestershire.
Looking at Saints current U-19s and Scholarships together, for players whose community club is listed (nearly all of them), those clubs are below with number of players in brackets.
Blackbrook (14) Halton Hornets (7) Thatto Heath (7) Newton Storm (5) Wigan St Jude’s (5) Leigh East (3) Orrell St James (3) Chorley Panthers, Leigh Miners Rangers, Liverpool Lions, Walney Central (all 2) Clock Face Miners, Folly Lane (both very cool names for clubs), Roose Pioneers, Shevington Sharks, Woolston Golds (all 1)
So although just three clubs provided nearly half of all the players listed, there are 16 clubs there, which i’d guess is more than Hull and Rovers draw on. Among the players who are in their first team squad and came through their system, you can add South Wales Scorpions, Bold Miners/Pilkington Recs, Barrow Island, Rochdale Mayfield and Oldham St Anne’s/Littleborough.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Jun 08 2008 Posts: 2212 Location: Purgatory
Mild Rover wrote:Looking at Saints current U-19s and Scholarships together, for players whose community club is listed (nearly all of them), those clubs are below with number of players in brackets.
Blackbrook (14) Halton Hornets (7) Thatto Heath (7) Newton Storm (5) Wigan St Jude’s (5) Leigh East (3) Orrell St James (3) Chorley Panthers, Leigh Miners Rangers, Liverpool Lions, Walney Central (all 2) Clock Face Miners, Folly Lane (both very cool names for clubs), Roose Pioneers, Shevington Sharks, Woolston Golds (all 1)
So although just three clubs provided nearly half of all the players listed, there are 16 clubs there, which i’d guess is more than Hull and Rovers draw on. Among the players who are in their first team squad and came through their system, you can add South Wales Scorpions, Bold Miners/Pilkington Recs, Barrow Island, Rochdale Mayfield and Oldham St Anne’s/Littleborough.
Yes but how many clubs are recruiting from those teams? Whereas ourselves and KR have almost exclusivity to our local amateur teams. The sad thing as a Saints fan is that for all their much lauded youth, it's almost impossible to find one of their players that is actually FROM St Helens itself in the first team.
The words of fools mean nothing to one who resides in the truth.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12664 Location: Leicestershire.
Raggytash wrote::arrow: I think we're victims of our own success. In my opinion Abdul is a better halfback than Dec Patton or Richardson neither of which do I think would do half as good a job as Jordan has at London. In my experience, our best youth come through when the first team is awful. The likes of Horne and Cooke came through when we had no option but to play them. Enough game time and responsibility can transform a player but in recent years our first team has been too strong to allow that to happen. It's much less of a risk to blood a forward than it is a back, as an error from a forward usually has less consequences. Shaul, Hall, Lineham, Lynne, Crooks, and Briscoe are all high end performers in the top league and we produced them all. The emergence of Connor Wynn looks exciting if a bit tragic that he plays in a position we're already so strong in. Also I know he's a hooker, but I think there's very few other SL sides that would've give Litten so little game time.
A current 1 - 13 of current Super League players that have come through the Hull academy could compete with the equivalent of any other SL side in my opinion.
I think what is perhaps interesting there is the proportion of those that make it who come from community clubs outside Hull and District. Briscoe from Fev Lions, Crooks from Cas Lock Lane, Lineham from teams in York. Watts and Oakes being examples of us trying similar, and you have Bienek from London and the Badham (sp?) twins from Wales. Obviously there are plenty of Hull lads are in there too, and bringing youngsters from elsewhere doesn’t always work - e.g. Kristian Bell for us. But as a proportion of the overall intake, these more hand-picked talents seem to offer a good return. I understand there’s a need to fill out the squads and it makes sense to do that locally. For all that Blackbrook produced Graham and Roby, I suspect part of the reason Saints have so many from there is convenience.
Looking at our debutants from 2012 to 2016, with the exception of Oakes, I think they were all local lads, which suggests we weren’t spreading the net all that wide. After Lineham and Crooks, it was has been similar story for Hull in terms of relying on local lads.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Mar 14 2003 Posts: 25923 Location: Back in Hull.
6 players from the Hull area have been selected for England under 16's. unfortunately 3 of them signed for Cas, what a disaster the COHA has been, lets hope it doesn't set us back too many years.
Joined: Mar 23 2018 Posts: 6675 Location: Kingston upon Hull
Dave K. wrote:6 players from the Hull area have been selected for England under 16's. unfortunately 3 of them signed for Cas, what a disaster the COHA has been, lets hope it doesn't set us back too many years.
Agree Dave, good riddance to that particular venture.
Dave K. wrote:6 players from the Hull area have been selected for England under 16's. unfortunately 3 of them signed for Cas, what a disaster the COHA has been, lets hope it doesn't set us back too many years.
Well was it not last year they [ Cas ] signed 11 Hull lads?
The thing I like it now gives the lads 50 to 60 places to play at a good standard of rugby. Due to no Sports mail or Humberside Amateur media pages, I have no idea how many schools still ply the game. I know there is no works league don't know of any clubs or pubs run teams, it now looks like any not very good clubs have gone to the wall but these often throw up a good player a natural leader.
Joined: Aug 01 2005 Posts: 5913 Location: Definately not in the Cuddle Crew
Dave K. wrote:6 players from the Hull area have been selected for England under 16's. unfortunately 3 of them signed for Cas, what a disaster the COHA has been, lets hope it doesn't set us back too many years.
I was talking to a couple the other days whos son was about to sign his first proper contract. Theyed toured the clubs, Wigan, Saints led the way in how they were treat - FC was one of the worse, and this family where all FC fans. They all had more positive things to say about Netherton than anyone at FC who got a loads of kids down but apparantly didnt even know who they where or what position they played and the coaches just stood there on their phones - very unprofessional was how they described FC - Cas where miles better too
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12664 Location: Leicestershire.
Dave K. wrote:6 players from the Hull area have been selected for England under 16's. unfortunately 3 of them signed for Cas, what a disaster the COHA has been, lets hope it doesn't set us back too many years.
It’ll be 2 or 3 more years before we really know. But the period immediately before that doesn’t look too brilliant in terms of delivery. Looking at last week’s derby teams there was only Lawler and Fash who were local and in their earlyish 20s. Add in Abdull, and that’s pretty much it for SL, I think.
Some bad luck, and sad outcomes for lads like Joe Wardill and Jansin Turgut, but it does look to have been a lean spell for the two independent academies for whatever reasons.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
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