Mrs Barista wrote:The club made profits of around £1m IIRC during the last board's tenure, enabled partly by not spending appropriately on the academy but after taking into account any payments to KH. Since AP took over nearly £800k has been lost. We didn't break even last year, gates are down again and many on here are saying they're not renewing. Sponsorship is likely to be lower - remember the P&O deal that was the largest of its kind at the time? The record shirt sales? IIRC we averaged 14k one year. Wilf is saying we've given up on 12k as a target now.

Let's say the reductions in income are offset by increased Sky monies - it's possible, and that on average over a c 15 year period we broke even. My point, in the opening post, is that Leeds, with £11m turnover, Saints with £7m & own stadium and Wigan with £7m and a cashed up owner, all three of which have higher gates too (and possibly better sponsorship) are currently much better placed than us financially, and the gap will be hard to close in the short term. Are you satisfied we have the size and quality of these three's back room staff? If not, and gates fall again, I just don't see how the expectation we can compete on a level playing field is justified.

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:The £11m turnover for Leeds, is this solely the Rhinos or does thus include the Union team? What I do know is, their corporate hospitality is huge in comparison to any other RL club in the UK. Not sure if the Rhinos own their stadium, but I think it maybe part of Caddicks business empire. St's do have their own stadium which I'd imagine they have a decent mortgage to finance it.

Anyway. Realistically what would make the opinion of the stay away fans change? Is it a matter of changing the coach or is it going to take a sustained period of winning to get bums on seats?

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:The £11m turnover for Leeds, is this solely the Rhinos or does thus include the Union team? What I do know is, their corporate hospitality is huge in comparison to any other RL club in the UK. Not sure if the Rhinos own their stadium, but I think it maybe part of Caddicks business empire. St's do have their own stadium which I'd imagine they have a decent mortgage to finance it.

Anyway. Realistically what would make the opinion of the stay away fans change? Is it a matter of changing the coach or is it going to take a sustained period of winning to get bums on seats?

Magic Superbeetle wrote:No. Saints have no bank debt, and was majorly financed (currently £15m) by a friend of Eamon McManus who also happens to be a Saints fan. The club can pay this back at any rate, and any debt remaining at the end of the 2018 will be liquidated into shares (or postponed) and the club will again be completely debt free. It will all come down to whether McManus wants to retire, and if he does the baton will be passed into a fan whose already proven his commitment financially (or at least that's my current understanding)

Jake the Peg wrote:Interesting. If that's the case, how come saints were so skint during the build process?

Magic Superbeetle wrote:Mcmanus still poured a lot of his own funds into the project, as well as modernising the training and youth facilities as an aside, and paying off directors loans we had outstanding from the early days of SL at the same time - i think McManus + sale of kr made up the remaining £10m for the stadium. I also think an element of idealism (a saints team in a saints stadium) meant we could have invested more in the playing side but chose not to - but that's more personal conjecture than what the accounts say.

I'll have a closer look on the saints accounts when they're published like I always do, but I'm 95% that's what was gleaned from last years accounts, and presume the accounts this year say the same...