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Does the club need a reality check?
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Author:  MadDogg [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Does the club need a reality check?
For whatever reason I watched the recording this morning and if anything it looked a worse performance than I remembered at the game. It was lacking in skill, intellect and composure. This along with the reactions from Peet to this game and previous make me wonder whether the club is in need of a reality check of what Wigan is supposed to be. Was that the performance of a supposed elite club? Is the club displaying contentment and acceptance of a decline in standards with a hint of arrogance thrown in? Why is the main focus of post match interviews pride that we tried hard? No-one doubts the effort and commitment and the will to win. I haven't doubted that in a Wigan team since Michael Maguire came in - it wasn't even an issue during the Adrian Lam years.

Passes and offloads going to ground, ineffective inside balls, another Bevan French intercept, conceding a try in our first defensive test from a basic scrum play, basic handling errors, ludicrous offloads from King conceding possession, poor distribution from dummy half, reckless tackle from Shorrocks giving the referee a decision to make etc. Our one try comes from individual brilliance and did we seriously threaten to score again? When we had good ball, some of the phrases from the commentary were bang on - 'A bit laboured from Wigan', 'too one out', 'poor execution' etc. They looked lost and lacking in confidence and direction. Further perspective - Hull KR missing a first choice halfback, fullback, front rower and an international winger. Wigan have the best training facilities in the league. Marquee players. And they were unquestionably better than us yesterday and deserved to win.

So the concern isn't so much the defeat. Its that expectations of what Wigan should be have changed from elite skill/execution to a team that....tries hard. We can only hope that Mike Danson will provide the same ruthlessness and high standard that was present in the early Lenagan years to provide that reality check and shift the expectations to where they should be.
Author:  Itchy Arsenal [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
MadDogg wrote:For whatever reason I watched the recording this morning and if anything it looked a worse performance than I remembered at the game. It was lacking in skill, intellect and composure. This along with the reactions from Peet to this game and previous make me wonder whether the club is in need of a reality check of what Wigan is supposed to be. Was that the performance of a supposed elite club? Is the club displaying contentment and acceptance of a decline in standards with a hint of arrogance thrown in? Why is the main focus of post match interviews pride that we tried hard? No-one doubts the effort and commitment and the will to win. I haven't doubted that in a Wigan team since Michael Maguire came in - it wasn't even an issue during the Adrian Lam years.

Passes and offloads going to ground, ineffective inside balls, another Bevan French intercept, conceding a try in our first defensive test from a basic scrum play, basic handling errors, ludicrous offloads from King conceding possession, poor distribution from dummy half, reckless tackle from Shorrocks giving the referee a decision to make etc. Our one try comes from individual brilliance and did we seriously threaten to score again? When we had good ball, some of the phrases from the commentary were bang on - 'A bit laboured from Wigan', 'too one out', 'poor execution' etc. They looked lost and lacking in confidence and direction. Further perspective - Hull KR missing a first choice halfback, fullback, front rower and an international winger. Wigan have the best training facilities in the league. Marquee players. And they were unquestionably better than us yesterday and deserved to win.

So the concern isn't so much the defeat. Its that expectations of what Wigan should be have changed from elite skill/execution to a team that....tries hard. We can only hope that Mike Danson will provide the same ruthlessness and high standard that was present in the early Lenagan years to provide that reality check and shift the expectations to where they should be.


I’ve said for the past two seasons that we an average side and are very beatable. This year we have regressed particularly in attack. I personally don’t think that there is an arrogance at the club in fact I’d say that senior members of the staff and squad are on the whole modest and have their feet firmly on the ground.

Last season we signed effectively 3 rookies in terms of experience when we needed 3 proven experienced professionals. Two haven’t worked (Cust and Mago) and one (Ellis) might just make it. Add to that the late departure of Bateman means that to get us, in my opinion, to get a half decent squad we need at least one proven experienced players in the following positions namely halfback, prop and back rower. That’s before we replace guys out of contract at the end of the season. For me not one of announced signings remotely addresses our shortfalls in our starting 13.
Maybe there are other signings to be announced, if not, 2024 will be a repeat of recent seasons.

I’d be interested to know who is now responsible for all first team signings. Recently I believe it was IL, KR and the coach. Now that IL is departing will SW cover this vital role?

With regards to yesterday I wasn’t surprised that we lost because when your game plan is limited you rely too much on commitment and determination which we have in bucket loads, but with startling lack of experience of the game in general and big games in particular. You could argue that HKR are short of big game experience etc but they were playing a team of similar experience but in the 2 games this season prior to yesterday HKR where the best team on both occasions albeit both games were played at HKR. So for me a loss was not surprising.
It was a very tense game form the off and though I also screamed at some of the poor offloads etc I would have screamed if we hadn’t tried something a little bit different and a little bit risky.

In the short term Peet and his coaches have to try and resolve the HB situation. Whatever they come up for the remainder of season French (to keep him there is so wasteful), Field (no real experience at HB), Cust (see Field) or Hampshire (hasn’t cut it at HB anywhere since playing first team rugby) it won’t be good enough and needs resolving for 2024. Add to that a pack that can’t dominate on a regular basis and has very little to add to our attacking prowess means for me we will be nearly men again in the playoffs. Without sounding too pessimistic, if we don’t make the playoffs I wouldn’t be totally surprised.

What we have got right since the departure of Lam is a great feel that the club is actually part of the community. That obviously won’t win any silverware, but for me personally, it is a prerequisite of what I expect from the club.

I’m still disappointed about yesterday but hope that better and more successful days are ahead of us.
Author:  MR FRISK [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
Long gone are days when you could guarantee a Wigan easy win! The top 10 in SL can all beat each over due to the salary cap e.g. all teams are as good as eachover :READING:
Author:  Zig [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
MR FRISK wrote:Long gone are days when you could guarantee a Wigan easy win! The top 10 in SL can all beat each over due to the salary cap e.g. all teams are as good as eachover :READING:


That could be true but we need to recruit better. If we had a good stand off, and I am not having a go at Bevan, then we would still have won that game with 12 men. Our recruitment needs to improve and I have a feeling it will.
Author:  [Gareth] [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
I just dont think the intensity is there as it was in the Maguire/Wane days. Also our basic skill level seems to be way below par more often than it should be
Author:  MadDogg [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
[Gareth] wrote:I just dont think the intensity is there as it was in the Maguire/Wane days. Also our basic skill level seems to be way below par more often than it should be


Compare the skill level and attacking cohesion from 2010-2012 and its night and day.
Author:  exiled Warrior [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
Look at our spine - Field, French, Smith, O'Neill - precious little experience there in big games, then in the pack we have a lack of experience as well. The squad has been desperate for some experienced players (prop and half-back being top of the list). Also we lack leaders on the pitch - no one seems to be dragging the team together and talking during the game - we need a better, stronger captain - we have a lot of quiet players.

We have relied too much on bringing players through the ranks and project signings for too long and recent signings look like more of the same - we really need a couple of experienced players (poss NRL ex-origin types someone like a Hoffman for example) to guide/help the younger players and act as on-field leaders.

If there is any reality check it is in the coaching side where we really do need some fresh ideas - our attack is really bad, without Field and French doing something freakish we are bang average in attacking plays, we just do not seem to have any idea how to break down defenses and we seem to have gone backwards at quite a rate.

There is no lack of effort/determinaation from the players but they look lost at times.
Author:  Pieman [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
MadDogg wrote:Compare the skill level and attacking cohesion from 2010-2012 and its night and day.


and more importantly defence
Author:  Egg Chasing [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
Sack the board
Author:  Itchy Arsenal [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does the club need a reality check?
Egg Chasing wrote:Sack the board


Ok the board have gone.
What do we do next?
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