Father Ted wrote:Should Wigan go after Martin Gleeson for next year. He is OOC at the end of this year so will be available unless the Wire re-sign him. He did express a wish to play in Aus but there don't seem to be any takers. After the World Cup shambles perhaps British players are not now on their radar. Tim Sheens mentioned that Ellis needed to learn the basics of Rugby League. That from the most experienced NRL coach about a GB/England established International. Since then Sheens been appointed their National Coach. If Gleeson doesn't go to Australia should we go for him? If signed he would come to the club as a federation trained player, we've plenty room for those! Thoughts please.
I'm not so sure. I think Saints and Warrington would have had the best out of him. I don't think there is much more he can offer us.
I would like to try and snap up a world class centre for 2010 with Carmont coming off contract.
Where do people feel we need to recruit for next year? Because the emergence of Sam Tomkins and Sean Ainscough has changed everything.
Fullback? - Pat Richards to be given the number 1 shirt , Ainscough and Roberts on the wings with Pryce as cover/centres.
Stand off - Sam Tomkins and let Tim Smith go?
Centre?
Prop forward is a definate though.
I would like to us sign a prop forward and a top class centre.
Andy Lynch - is he injury prone?
LMS - Would he ever leave Harlequins?
Luke Bailey would be ideal IMO.
I will have to have a browse around t'interweb to see how many quality centres are coming off contract at the end of the season.
But I think at the end of the season we should have a lot more space on the salary cap with most likely:
Richie Mathers, Cameron Phelps, Phil Bailey, Andy Coley, Tim Smith all leaving and maybe Carmont if we were to sign a top class centre.
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Father Ted wrote:Should Wigan go after Martin Gleeson for next year. He is OOC at the end of this year so will be available unless the Wire re-sign him. He did express a wish to play in Aus but there don't seem to be any takers. After the World Cup shambles perhaps British players are not now on their radar. Tim Sheens mentioned that Ellis needed to learn the basics of Rugby League. That from the most experienced NRL coach about a GB/England established International. Since then Sheens been appointed their National Coach. If Gleeson doesn't go to Australia should we go for him? If signed he would come to the club as a federation trained player, we've plenty room for those! Thoughts please.
It really is shocking but British coaches do not coach skills, or work on them, once you are a first team player is is assumed you can tackle correctly and maintain the fine skills of the game.
It is this along with an influx of overseas players that is killing us at the top level of International competition.
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cadoo wrote:I'm not so sure. I think Saints and Warrington would have had the best out of him. I don't think there is much more he can offer us.
I would like to try and snap up a world class centre for 2010 with Carmont coming off contract.
Where do people feel we need to recruit for next year? Because the emergence of Sam Tomkins and Sean Ainscough has changed everything.
Fullback? - Pat Richards to be given the number 1 shirt , Ainscough and Roberts on the wings with Pryce as cover/centres.
Stand off - Sam Tomkins and let Tim Smith go?
Centre?
Prop forward is a definate though.
I would like to us sign a prop forward and a top class centre.
Andy Lynch - is he injury prone? LMS - Would he ever leave Harlequins?
Luke Bailey would be ideal IMO.
I will have to have a browse around t'interweb to see how many quality centres are coming off contract at the end of the season.
But I think at the end of the season we should have a lot more space on the salary cap with most likely:
Richie Mathers, Cameron Phelps, Phil Bailey, Andy Coley, Tim Smith all leaving and maybe Carmont if we were to sign a top class centre.
I hope we can persuade Carmont to stay on another year.
With Tomkins x2, Ainscough, O'Carroll, Prescott and McIlorum making themselves established first teamers we will have alot of money to splash around.
We need a top class prop and maybe a half-back and centre, with the amount of young players coming through and maybe 6-7 players leaving, the recruitment looks exciting for next year.
Dropkick Murphy..we actually saw and heard a mass of bouncing and scarf and flag waving to Dale Cavese that drowned out anything we could muster.. It stopped us singing our own celebratory songs, it died out seconds later when we accepted we couldn't be heard over the Wigan lot Celebrations muted from us, job done from them. Most fans who slag them off are jealous their own club's support is nowhere near that good - sally cinnamon..Why not discuss Wigan? It's a rugby league message board. Wigan are the most famous brand in rugby league - Tre Cool..Saints fans are hopeless unless it's a cup final or grand final. Wigan fans are so much more loyal and passionate - the flying biscuit..Wires havent been massively succesful over the years, but I've spoke to Brian Bevan And he spoke to me and i wouldnt swap that for Wigans History, ever - Ande..on the TV i could only hear the Wigan fans with about 10 to go - Saint94..Every team is in your feckin shadow, we all know - FIOS
kirkamania6 wrote:If we didn't bring anyone in and let Mathers, Coley, Bailey, Phelps and Smith go then our best 17 could line up as
Richards Roberts Pryce Carmont Ainscough S Tomkins Tommy Fielden Riddell Prescott Hansen Lockers Tomkins
Feka Hock Eamon McIlorum
Not a lot of decent back up but thinking about it that side isn't bad
Tbh thats our best lineup atm but with Bailey in instead of Pryce.
If we could add to that team even further that would be great.
Dropkick Murphy..we actually saw and heard a mass of bouncing and scarf and flag waving to Dale Cavese that drowned out anything we could muster.. It stopped us singing our own celebratory songs, it died out seconds later when we accepted we couldn't be heard over the Wigan lot Celebrations muted from us, job done from them. Most fans who slag them off are jealous their own club's support is nowhere near that good - sally cinnamon..Why not discuss Wigan? It's a rugby league message board. Wigan are the most famous brand in rugby league - Tre Cool..Saints fans are hopeless unless it's a cup final or grand final. Wigan fans are so much more loyal and passionate - the flying biscuit..Wires havent been massively succesful over the years, but I've spoke to Brian Bevan And he spoke to me and i wouldnt swap that for Wigans History, ever - Ande..on the TV i could only hear the Wigan fans with about 10 to go - Saint94..Every team is in your feckin shadow, we all know - FIOS
1 Richards
2 Roberts
3 NEW SIGNING
4 Carmont (keep for at least another season)
5 Ainscough
6 Tomkins
7 Tommy
8 Fielden
9 Riddell
10 Feka
11 Hock
12 Tomkins
13 Lockers
----------------
O Carroll
McClorum
Prescott
Hansen
RELEASE
Smith, Phelps, Bailey, Mathers, Coley.
----------------------
Focus more on youth development allowing players from the lower ranks the opportunity to progress and take the chance to play for the 1st team.
Use the CAP to upgrade some current players contracts to award good play, possibly Tomkins brothers Ainscough etc if continue to play well and adapt the right professional attitude. It will create a better ethos if younger players see better wages going to players who are playing well and being professional, lads who were also once part of the academy/youth system.
This will create a better feel around the club rather than younger players seeing the money going to overseas Aussies.
Monitor the progression of the likes of McClorum, Prescott and O Carroll, I don't see the need to bring in new players if the lads at the team are doing a good job.
See who's available at
Scrum half/Stand off. Sam Tomkins will be one or the other, if McClorum doesn't come through then we have the option of Tommy at 9 on the interchange.
A centre, Pryce is already part of the team, but depth in a squad is also important. Someone with potential and the willing to be part of the team, no necessarily a big cap overseas signing. Money used to reward current players.
I would like to see Prescott and O Carroll to use this season to become 1st team props, if they come through, O Carroll as impact, Prescott as a 60min prop (similar to Fielden) we would have Feka, Fielden, Prescott, O Carroll as our 4 props. Depending on the Fielden situation, we could bring in another good prop, or keep Fielden on a reduced contract freeing up more cash.
Think carefully about signing overseas players, ask what they can do for the club off the field as well as on, can they add character and leadership to the current set-up? Can they aid the development of younger players? Sign with caution, and for the right money, signing an aussie for big bucks sets the wrong example.
Focus is Wigan players in a Wigan team. Aussies and signings only to aid a Wigan squad.
I seriously think following this structure, having faith in the rugby players Wigan produce, I truly believe Wigan can once again become the dominate force in RL.
In regards to a new centre - a lot of this will depend on how well Karl Pryce adapts and regains fitness this season. At some point this season he will be fully fit/match fit and at the end of the season we will have a better idea of if he has warranted a first team centre spot for next year. His contract is also up at the end of the year as well.
George Carmont - firstly if he decides to stay. Again same with Pryce we will have to see how he gets along this season. Last season he was our best signing - making the dream team. A fair judgement can only be made on Carmont is at the end of the season. FWIW I doubt he will be on a fortune even if we did upgrade his contract. So even if we did keep him on as a squad player or whatever he is worth keeping on for whatever part he plays because of the money he is on.
Also strength in depth in the backs is certainly needed. We will have Darrell Goulding pushing for a place in the backs but apart from that we are very limited in our options in the backs. So do we keep Phelps on? No I don't think so. A lot depends really on how well Karl Pryce settles into the side.
But for me I think we need to recruit a top class centre for 2010. A former Leeds target Iosia Soliola is out of contract.
The halfback situation is an interesting debate. Sam Tomkins will still be here but it is a question of can he cope with first team rugby week in week out and performing consistently week in week out at super league level? I don't doubt Sams ability but there will come a day when he will make a big mistake, when he will have a poor game and when he will come under some pressure from fans/management. So it will be how he reacts to these circumstances that will determine whether we need to bring in another halfback.
Thomas Leuluai is also out of contract and so he may come under the microscope this season - and a fair assessment should be made whether we sign him for next year - future years. There are quality players OOC in the NRL at halfback - Matt Orford the main target IMO. Darren Lockyer is also there abouts. You just have to think can Orford do a better job than Leuluai? Will he bring more to the side in the time he is here? Will Leuluai offer more to us long term than Matt Orford?
I still believe that we need to recruit a prop forward for next season. Having Fielden Feka O'carroll and Prescott is good in theory but what happens should one get injured? O'carroll and Prescott however much potential they might have they are not mature prop forwards and are still very inexperienced. Could they handle super league week in week out in the first team?. Maybe this season will give us a good idea. But I think we need a bit more "beef" up front and we need to look to recruit an experienced professional who can help develop Prescott and O'carroll rather than have a negative affect and hold them back. I think Luke Bailey would be a good example. At only 28 he still has a lot to offer and has plenty of experience in the NRL. If he was signed on a three year contract he would help offer advice/tips to aid both O'carroll and Prescott's development while offering us some strength in depth and keep everyone on their toes having 5 props for next season.Then when Fielden comes off contract in 2010 we can just have Feka Bailey Prescott and O'carroll - as Prescott and O'carroll will have progressed from that year Bailey was here. Also with Fielden coming off contract we have a lot more room on the cap to offer sufficient wages to O'carroll and Prescott and reward them for their progress as you mention in your theory.
A good post there and for most parts I agree.
In regards to a new centre - a lot of this will depend on how well Karl Pryce adapts and regains fitness this season. At some point this season he will be fully fit/match fit and at the end of the season we will have a better idea of if he has warranted a first team centre spot for next year. His contract is also up at the end of the year as well.
George Carmont - firstly if he decides to stay. Again same with Pryce we will have to see how he gets along this season. Last season he was our best signing - making the dream team. A fair judgement can only be made on Carmont is at the end of the season. FWIW I doubt he will be on a fortune even if we did upgrade his contract. So even if we did keep him on as a squad player or whatever he is worth keeping on for whatever part he plays because of the money he is on.
Also strength in depth in the backs is certainly needed. We will have Darrell Goulding pushing for a place in the backs but apart from that we are very limited in our options in the backs. So do we keep Phelps on? No I don't think so. A lot depends really on how well Karl Pryce settles into the side.
But for me I think we need to recruit a top class centre for 2010. A former Leeds target Iosia Soliola is out of contract.
The halfback situation is an interesting debate. Sam Tomkins will still be here but it is a question of can he cope with first team rugby week in week out and performing consistently week in week out at super league level? I don't doubt Sams ability but there will come a day when he will make a big mistake, when he will have a poor game and when he will come under some pressure from fans/management. So it will be how he reacts to these circumstances that will determine whether we need to bring in another halfback.
Thomas Leuluai is also out of contract and so he may come under the microscope this season - and a fair assessment should be made whether we sign him for next year - future years. There are quality players OOC in the NRL at halfback - Matt Orford the main target IMO. Darren Lockyer is also there abouts. You just have to think can Orford do a better job than Leuluai? Will he bring more to the side in the time he is here? Will Leuluai offer more to us long term than Matt Orford?
I still believe that we need to recruit a prop forward for next season. Having Fielden Feka O'carroll and Prescott is good in theory but what happens should one get injured? O'carroll and Prescott however much potential they might have they are not mature prop forwards and are still very inexperienced. Could they handle super league week in week out in the first team?. Maybe this season will give us a good idea. But I think we need a bit more "beef" up front and we need to look to recruit an experienced professional who can help develop Prescott and O'carroll rather than have a negative affect and hold them back. I think Luke Bailey would be a good example. At only 28 he still has a lot to offer and has plenty of experience in the NRL. If he was signed on a three year contract he would help offer advice/tips to aid both O'carroll and Prescott's development while offering us some strength in depth and keep everyone on their toes having 5 props for next season.Then when Fielden comes off contract in 2010 we can just have Feka Bailey Prescott and O'carroll - as Prescott and O'carroll will have progressed from that year Bailey was here. Also with Fielden coming off contract we have a lot more room on the cap to offer sufficient wages to O'carroll and Prescott and reward them for their progress as you mention in your theory.
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Some very good points although I wouldn’t like and can’t see us turning completely towards Aus for all our signing next season as it wouldn’t be good for us in the long term as it would mean continuing the policy of having to keep replacing the same positions every two/three years e.g O’Neil-Moran-Trent when Saints would have just had Long in that time or will have Pryce for a good few more seasons. It’s all about stability for me and although I agree Sam will make mistakes and have a few bad games we have to stick with him and give him more than a good run in the first team. It will only benefit us at the end of the day.
Saying that however a scrum half may be needed as Tommy isn’t the best 7 in the world and is far more suited to nine. Dobson would be my first choice out of anyone realistically available. He does the basics well and does other stuff on top of that which wins you games. He’d be the perfect foil for Tomkins and again we’d achieve continuity in a pivotal position for a number of seasons. It’s a shame that he’s off contract at the end of next season and not this one meaning we’d have to find a alternative for just next season- maybe Smith till then? I just think Dobson is the man to partner Tomkins for a good few years and we should move heaven and earth for him over someone like Orford or even Lockyer.
Realistically if we do say get one of either Orford, Bailey or Soliola tho we don’t have to recruit players with as much experience in other positions as these three have experience in abundance.
I still like the idea of signing LMS if he’s A-willing and B-Available as he’ll be a top quality prop one day and is already just a very good SL prop now. He’d be an investment who should get better year in year out.
When we start to put a team together that will for the most part remain the same for a good few seasons we will see a marked improvement in our week to week performances. It’s no good having four or five new players coming in or leaving every season in key positions.
I really think this team is on the verge of being a successful one and all It needs are realistically two signings of a really good quality to take us to the next level. Soliola/Gleeson and LMS would be the pick for me.
3 World Club Challenges 19 League Titles 17 Challenge Cup wins ONE CLUB WIGAN RLFC
Last edited by thepriestman85 on Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cadoo wrote:A good post there and for most parts I agree.
In regards to a new centre - a lot of this will depend on how well Karl Pryce adapts and regains fitness this season. At some point this season he will be fully fit/match fit and at the end of the season we will have a better idea of if he has warranted a first team centre spot for next year. His contract is also up at the end of the year as well.
George Carmont - firstly if he decides to stay. Again same with Pryce we will have to see how he gets along this season. Last season he was our best signing - making the dream team. A fair judgement can only be made on Carmont is at the end of the season. FWIW I doubt he will be on a fortune even if we did upgrade his contract. So even if we did keep him on as a squad player or whatever he is worth keeping on for whatever part he plays because of the money he is on.
Also strength in depth in the backs is certainly needed. We will have Darrell Goulding pushing for a place in the backs but apart from that we are very limited in our options in the backs. So do we keep Phelps on? No I don't think so. A lot depends really on how well Karl Pryce settles into the side.
But for me I think we need to recruit a top class centre for 2010. A former Leeds target Iosia Soliola is out of contract.
The halfback situation is an interesting debate. Sam Tomkins will still be here but it is a question of can he cope with first team rugby week in week out and performing consistently week in week out at super league level? I don't doubt Sams ability but there will come a day when he will make a big mistake, when he will have a poor game and when he will come under some pressure from fans/management. So it will be how he reacts to these circumstances that will determine whether we need to bring in another halfback.
Thomas Leuluai is also out of contract and so he may come under the microscope this season - and a fair assessment should be made whether we sign him for next year - future years. There are quality players OOC in the NRL at halfback - Matt Orford the main target IMO. Darren Lockyer is also there abouts. You just have to think can Orford do a better job than Leuluai? Will he bring more to the side in the time he is here? Will Leuluai offer more to us long term than Matt Orford?
I still believe that we need to recruit a prop forward for next season. Having Fielden Feka O'carroll and Prescott is good in theory but what happens should one get injured? O'carroll and Prescott however much potential they might have they are not mature prop forwards and are still very inexperienced. Could they handle super league week in week out in the first team?. Maybe this season will give us a good idea. But I think we need a bit more "beef" up front and we need to look to recruit an experienced professional who can help develop Prescott and O'carroll rather than have a negative affect and hold them back. I think Luke Bailey would be a good example. At only 28 he still has a lot to offer and has plenty of experience in the NRL. If he was signed on a three year contract he would help offer advice/tips to aid both O'carroll and Prescott's development while offering us some strength in depth and keep everyone on their toes having 5 props for next season.Then when Fielden comes off contract in 2010 we can just have Feka Bailey Prescott and O'carroll - as Prescott and O'carroll will have progressed from that year Bailey was here. Also with Fielden coming off contract we have a lot more room on the cap to offer sufficient wages to O'carroll and Prescott and reward them for their progress as you mention in your theory.
Good post
Whoever we do sign I just hope they have thought about it long and hard and made sure they are of the right quality to add something to the team
Can't really ask for anything more than that
cadoo wrote:A good post there and for most parts I agree.
In regards to a new centre - a lot of this will depend on how well Karl Pryce adapts and regains fitness this season. At some point this season he will be fully fit/match fit and at the end of the season we will have a better idea of if he has warranted a first team centre spot for next year. His contract is also up at the end of the year as well.
George Carmont - firstly if he decides to stay. Again same with Pryce we will have to see how he gets along this season. Last season he was our best signing - making the dream team. A fair judgement can only be made on Carmont is at the end of the season. FWIW I doubt he will be on a fortune even if we did upgrade his contract. So even if we did keep him on as a squad player or whatever he is worth keeping on for whatever part he plays because of the money he is on.
Also strength in depth in the backs is certainly needed. We will have Darrell Goulding pushing for a place in the backs but apart from that we are very limited in our options in the backs. So do we keep Phelps on? No I don't think so. A lot depends really on how well Karl Pryce settles into the side.
But for me I think we need to recruit a top class centre for 2010. A former Leeds target Iosia Soliola is out of contract.
The halfback situation is an interesting debate. Sam Tomkins will still be here but it is a question of can he cope with first team rugby week in week out and performing consistently week in week out at super league level? I don't doubt Sams ability but there will come a day when he will make a big mistake, when he will have a poor game and when he will come under some pressure from fans/management. So it will be how he reacts to these circumstances that will determine whether we need to bring in another halfback.
Thomas Leuluai is also out of contract and so he may come under the microscope this season - and a fair assessment should be made whether we sign him for next year - future years. There are quality players OOC in the NRL at halfback - Matt Orford the main target IMO. Darren Lockyer is also there abouts. You just have to think can Orford do a better job than Leuluai? Will he bring more to the side in the time he is here? Will Leuluai offer more to us long term than Matt Orford?
I still believe that we need to recruit a prop forward for next season. Having Fielden Feka O'carroll and Prescott is good in theory but what happens should one get injured? O'carroll and Prescott however much potential they might have they are not mature prop forwards and are still very inexperienced. Could they handle super league week in week out in the first team?. Maybe this season will give us a good idea. But I think we need a bit more "beef" up front and we need to look to recruit an experienced professional who can help develop Prescott and O'carroll rather than have a negative affect and hold them back. I think Luke Bailey would be a good example. At only 28 he still has a lot to offer and has plenty of experience in the NRL. If he was signed on a three year contract he would help offer advice/tips to aid both O'carroll and Prescott's development while offering us some strength in depth and keep everyone on their toes having 5 props for next season.Then when Fielden comes off contract in 2010 we can just have Feka Bailey Prescott and O'carroll - as Prescott and O'carroll will have progressed from that year Bailey was here. Also with Fielden coming off contract we have a lot more room on the cap to offer sufficient wages to O'carroll and Prescott and reward them for their progress as you mention in your theory.
Good post
Whoever we do sign I just hope they have thought about it long and hard and made sure they are of the right quality to add something to the team
thepriestman85 wrote:Some very good points although I wouldn’t like and can’t see us turning completely towards Aus for all our signing next season as it wouldn’t be good for us in the long term as we would have to keep replacing the same positions every two/three years e.g O’Neil, Moran, Trent when Saints will have just had Long or will have Pryce for a good few more seasons. It’s all about stability for me and although I agree Sam will make mistakes and have a few bad games we have to stick with him and give him more than a good run in the first team. It will only benefit us in the long term.
A very good point. I didn't realise I had picked all Aussies I was only using them as examples. Andy Lynch could do a job for us but I worry about possible injury problems. LMS would be a fantastic signing he will be a cracking player in the future and certainly an England international. (I think he is already?) He could offer us depth for next season but when Fielden's contract runs out after 2010 that would leave us with three very young prop forwards in Prescott O'carroll and LMS. Talent yes but experience no. It would be interesting to see how far they progress in that year previously to see how they cope with the strain of super league week in week out. Although I would class LMS as an established super league player. Prescott and O'carroll we will have to see at the end of the year. I have high hopes for both.
I agree RE Dobson he is something special. But I have a feeling it will be a real battle to get him back at Wigan as Hull KR will move heaven and earth to keep him if they have any sense about them. We could extend Leuluai's contract for another year and review the situation and then maybe make a bid for Dobson. I agree with the stability comment. It is noticeable that the two best sides (Leeds and Saints) only recruit one or two players each year and keep the vast majority of their squad and are not chopping and changing key players.(Fullback,Stand off, Scrum half, Hooker and loose forward) something we have never had stability in. We have Riddell and McIlorum on long contracts. Hopefully Sam will be here for the next 10 years and Pat Richards should be given the number 1 shirt. Tommy has been here a while but we now have a whole new combination - is Tommy the man for the job? I'm not sure it is something Ian Lenegan and Brian Noble will have to think about.
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I was only using them as examples. Andy Lynch could do a job for us but I worry about possible injury problems. LMS would be a fantastic signing he will be a cracking player in the future and certainly an England international. (I think he is already?) He could offer us depth for next season but when Fielden's contract runs out after 2010 that would leave us with three very young prop forwards in Prescott O'carroll and LMS. Talent yes but experience no. It would be interesting to see how far they progress in that year previously to see how they cope with the strain of super league week in week out. Although I would class LMS as an established super league player. Prescott and O'carroll we will have to see at the end of the year. I have high hopes for both.
