That works out at just one player per season since 1996 and most of those that you mentioned are very average players.



Not very consistant at all really?

To breaking point

They have the medals / rings to be included as winners and part of this discussion.

OK then. Do you care to answer Alex' post about you averaging about 1 player a season brought through since 1996?

i've just had a quick look through the lineups, and we are averging about 5 Academy players in the team in each of the Grand Final and Cup Final successes since 1996.



in the 1999 Grand Final we only had 2 (Cunningham and Wellens). 6 I think is the most...2002 Grand Final.

Was I talking to you?

I am right then

2002 Challenge Cup Final

1 Kris Radlinski Full Back Paul Wellens 1

2 Brett Dallas Winger Anthony Stewart 19

15 Paul Johnson Centre Martin Gleeson 3

4 Gary Connolly Centre Paul Newlove 4

3 Jamie Ainscough Winger Darren Albert 5

6 Julian O'Neill Stand Off Tommy Martyn 20

7 Adrian Lam Scrum Half Sean Long 7

8 Terry O'Connor Prop Darren Britt 8

9 Terry Newton Hooker Keiron Cunningham 9

10 Craig Smith Prop Peter Shiels 12

11 Mick Cassidy 2nd Row Chris Joynt 11

12 David Furner 2nd Row Tim Jonkers 15

13 Andy Farrell L.Forward Paul Sculthorpe 13

- - - - -

5 Brian Carney Substitute Sean Hoppe 2

14 David Hodgson Substitute Barry Ward 10

18 Mark Smith Substitute John Stankevitch 14

21 Ricky Bibey Substitute Mick Higham 17



2004 Challenge Cup Final



St Helens: Wellens; Gardner, Gleeson, Talau, Albert; Hooper, Long; Fozzard, Cunningham, Mason, Joynt, Gilmour, Sculthorpe (capt). Subs: Feaunati, Bibey, Edmondson, Wilkin.



Wigan: Radlinski; Hodgson, O'Loughlin, Brown, Dallas; Orr, Lam; C Smith, Newton, Pongia, Hock, Tickle, Farrell (capt). Subs: O'Connor, Sculthorpe, Cassidy, Wild.



Referee: Karl Kirkpatrick (Warrington).

Jonkers in 2002, and Edmondson in 2004.

Well spotted but the point has surely been proven?

ive no idea what the point was?

Sometimes that's a blissful state to be in!

Edited to include the famous two.

No you weren't.



Courtesy of Rouges:



2004 Challenge Cup Final



St Helens: Wellens; Gardner, Gleeson, Talau, Albert; Hooper, Long; Fozzard, Cunningham, Mason, Joynt, Gilmour, Sculthorpe (capt). Subs: Feaunati, Bibey, Edmondson, Wilkin.



That is three out of the 1st 17 in that final who came through Saints academy.



As I said the basis of Saints success over the SL era has been based on bought in players. That 2004 side is a good example (even paid us a transfer fee for Bibey!) and proves what I said earlier that compared to the 2007 GF side I mentioned that had a majority of players from outside the club earlier successful sides had even more players brought in.



Where this idea Saints have been good at promoting local academy produced players over their successful era came from I don't know.



Dave

that was one of our worst years for youth development. over the course of Super Leauge we have consistently had 5 or 6 academy products in the team



In the 2002 Grand Final over one third of the team came through the Academy system, which is a pretty good number IMO.

We can all pick our games to apparently prove our point!



I named many players with medals to contradict your theory!



I don't doubt Saints have signed many players, as have many other clubs to dismiss the input of the academy set up is very wrong IMO!