Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 1316 Location: anywhere with my hand around the bush
cadoo wrote:A good point. The guy can play the game time required of a hooker. I think he did 30 minutes in the first half Pryce was on for 20 minutes (if that) so that means Riddell played 60 minutes which is good going.
But the point I would make is that Riddell would be a better player if he lost a few pounds and improved his fitness. He would be able to make more scoots from dummy half and move around the field much quicker. I think he has a lot of talent - some of plays (in patches I admit) has been brilliant in terms of being deceptive and creative so clearly he is a talented hooker. I would just like him to take advantage of this and get into shape.
Jonh is probably the best person on here to talk about weight, fitness and effectiveness. But as you say we got 60 - 65 minutes out of him at weekend. He looks big but that does not mean he is unfit. Would we see a any improvement in his fitness if he lost weight? Id rather have a porky Riddell than a muscle bound Higham any day.
Joined: Mar 30 2004 Posts: 7789 Location: Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
DaveO wrote:It is based on games played and Clarke has played 16 games out of possible 20 so missed 4 but I am pretty sure Higham didn't play the full 80 in all those games.
Well you never got over yours v Higham so you are one to talk.
How would anyone know that but a) it won't stop you constructing an argument as if it was a hard fact and b) even if you are right it just highlights the fact Riddell is not on the pitch long enough!!
Well there is and example of a)
Well if you want to make out he has some statistics poorer than Higham because he is on the pitch less it works both ways. If Higham played most of the 80 for those four games Clarke missed then he was obviously on the pitch for longer that Riddell is for us so had more opportunities to give penalties away - which is the exact same excuse made for Lockers when his penalty stats have been questioned and I would not be surprised if you were one who subscribed that excuse for Lockers!
Riddell is unfit, does not play long enough, is demonstrably inferior to quite a few hookers statistically and this idea his distribution is top drawer is a myth. In the last game quite a fee of his passes were to high or too low for example.
If you were not so desperate for him to be better than Higham and gave up thinking that was the be all and end all of his reason to be here you (and Rouges) would see his faults.
He's not good enough regardless of how good or bad Higham is.
Dave
It was someone having a dig at Riddell that started this thread!
If they don't want people defending him when the Stats and what others can see with their own eyes then don't have a dig at him in the first place!
You have been shown time & time again why Riddell's "Sats" are as good if not better than Highams in most areas and you choose to ignore them!
If you want me to explain them to you I will but that isn't the point.
As you so dismissively said to Rogues the other day, Your Opinions are "Worthless"!
PS
Point out the stat that Higham is better at & I'll explain why your wrong!
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Joined: Mar 30 2004 Posts: 7789 Location: Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
Lippy wrote:Jonh is probably the best person on here to talk about weight, fitness and effectiveness. But as you say we got 60 - 65 minutes out of him at weekend. He looks big but that does not mean he is unfit. Would we see a any improvement in his fitness if he lost weight? Id rather have a porky Riddell than a muscle bound Higham any day.
Correct!
How were Wire doing with Higham at the start of the season???
How have they been doing lately since his Injury?????
Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock
"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"
[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]
Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"
I thanked him and went on my Merry way!
RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!
"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."
Jukesays wrote:What I do know is he is Better than Higham by a mile that'll do for me at the moment!
I agree with you there he is better than Higham but that was a given anyway when we signed him. When you sign someone they have to be an improvement on who they have replaced and the least of our expectations on Riddell was that he would do that and he has.
But the issue people will have is that being a club with ambition you would hope that bringing in an overseas player means that they should be up their as the best in your squad and in terms of their position should be one of the best in the league. Mark Riddell evidently is not. Chad Randall, James Roby, Keiron Cunningham, Shaun Berrigan, Brad Drew, Terry Newton, Scott Moore etc have all out performed Mark Riddell this season and from one of your overseas signings you expect him to be at the top and at the moment he isn't. Hence the criticism.
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cadoo wrote:I agree with you there he is better than Higham but that was a given anyway when we signed him. When you sign someone they have to be an improvement on who they have replaced and the least of our expectations on Riddell was that he would do that and he has.
But the issue people will have is that being a club with ambition you would hope that bringing in an overseas player means that they should be up their as the best in your squad and in terms of their position should be one of the best in the league. Mark Riddell evidently is not. Chad Randall, James Roby, Keiron Cunningham, Shaun Berrigan, Brad Drew, Terry Newton, Scott Moore etc have all out performed Mark Riddell this season and from one of your overseas signings you expect him to be at the top and at the moment he isn't. Hence the criticism.
Exactly. Is there any reason to continue this thread now?
Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 1316 Location: anywhere with my hand around the bush
cadoo wrote:I agree with you there he is better than Higham but that was a given anyway when we signed him. When you sign someone they have to be an improvement on who they have replaced and the least of our expectations on Riddell was that he would do that and he has.
But the issue people will have is that being a club with ambition you would hope that bringing in an overseas player means that they should be up their as the best in your squad and in terms of their position should be one of the best in the league. Mark Riddell evidently is not. Chad Randall, James Roby, Keiron Cunningham, Shaun Berrigan, Brad Drew, Terry Newton, Scott Moore etc have all out performed Mark Riddell this season and from one of your overseas signings you expect him to be at the top and at the moment he isn't. Hence the criticism.
You would need a page and a half for every player that has out played our players at some point this season. Don't get me wrong I am not a huge Piggy fan, but he is far from on his own at being out played, and that includes all our over seas signings. He has played well when the team play well. He evidently is not a player that can turn a game around. If you want a number 9 that can do that who would you realistically get, depending on money and availability???
Joined: Feb 22 2005 Posts: 6640 Location: Not sure!
If you want to throw stats at the difference between Higham and Riddell, how about Higham having made twice as many errors and having given away twice as many penalties in less games?
There is also the unquantifiable difference that Riddell has made at dummy half with improved distribution and organisation.
It is also worth noting that Riddell has made 5 clean breaks to Higham's 1. IMO, this suggests that while he may not scoot as much, he is better at judging when is the right time to do so.
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It's one stat that isn't an assessment of Riddell's over all game.
Although it is an AREA of his game that does need to improve, his recent performances have been much improved and he has some pretty good games.
IMO, like many other overseas players that have had long term contracts with this club, I can see Riddell continuing to improve for the rest of 2009 before starting next years season with confidence and the knowledge of what to expect from Super League opposition.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Jukesays wrote:And it's about time people stopped being fixated on proving that a player they don't like is Rubbish purley to "Prove a Point"!
As for you saying he is worse in the stats than Higham last year then look again!
You need to look again. I said his stats v runs from dummy half were better. Not that they all were.
Quote:161 Runs from Dummy half last year from Higham, given he played EVERY Game shows he did LESS runs from dummy half Per game on that Particular stat! As for the other stats then IMO they compare favourably to Higham's however in comparison to other 9's then some are better & some are worse.
And Higham's stats for this particular one this year are better than the got with us last year and are better than Riddells average. :shrug:
The point you won't address is the one made by Cadoo:
"But the issue people will have is that being a club with ambition you would hope that bringing in an overseas player means that they should be up their as the best in your squad and in terms of their position should be one of the best in the league. Mark Riddell evidently is not. Chad Randall, James Roby, Keiron Cunningham, Shaun Berrigan, Brad Drew, Terry Newton, Scott Moore etc have all out performed Mark Riddell this season and from one of your overseas signings you expect him to be at the top and at the moment he isn't. Hence the criticism."
Quote:I don't try to make too much of stats that's why I said the thread was pointless right at the beginning of it. What I do know is he is Better than Higham by a mile that'll do for me at the moment!
Whether he is better than Higham is not the issue and if that is good enough for now for you then you are simply ignoring the fact that compared to his contemporaries he just isn't very good.
Dave
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