DaveO wrote:Which is completely and utterly irrelevant. In case you had not noticed we ARE currently in a position to entice top players. We have signed the likes of Fielden, Barrett and now Gleeson in recent seasons.

My point is we ought to be behaving in the same way now as we did then and contrary to your opinion we ARE in a position to do so. Plenty of people do not consider TL a good enough enough 7 yet we have signed him up again. It's no use saying we will sign another half back and TL will play 9 because that is pure speculation which of course is not allowed is it? I also happen to think it is unlikely to happen based on who is out of contract and what other positions need to be sorted out.

well put Dave


Good grief. I was criticised for speculating that Smith will leave and we will have Riddell and McIllorum at 9, TL and Tomkins in the half back positions and here you are living on fantasy island. TL a stop gap? With a three year contract? He isn't a stop gap at all.



We did not take any steps to go from Clarke and McInnes to Lowe. They were far more successful at this club than Noble has been and were replaced. The fact we had several coaches before them is just not relevant but in any case we had Murphy who was at the time considered another top coach.

Who we had before the decision to replace Clarke and McInnes is another huge irrelevance. It had nothing to do with that decision. In any case Noble is supposed to be a top coach so we are already at the level of employing top coaches so therefore wanting to see a similar replacement exercise as what happened to Clarke and McInnes seems extremely relevant to me.



It didn't take him 6 or 7 years at all. This is just utter nonsense. We had a scrum half, Ford, who was quite good - we appointed a better one, Gregory. We currently had a scrum half who was OK but not the best 7, supposedly on a high wage so what do we do? We give him a new deal when his wages could have gone, IMO, on a better player. We were actually in an unconstrained position to deal here. And as to the salary cap it works both ways i.e. players can't command silly money any more so your implication that I am suggesting we chuck money around as if there was no cap is wide of the mark.

As to the Bosman ruling what on earth are you on about now?



What's my agenda?



Well at least we agree on something.



<sigh> The reason Noble's position got mentioned again is because of the parallels between what happened in 1986 and what I would like to see happen now. You are the one who was harking back to how it was then as if we could learn lessons from it. Well IMO one of the biggest lessons we could learn was what happened with the Clarke/McInnes/Lowe situation.



You seem to want to hang me for expressing the opposite opinion.



How about because the longer he stays the more damage he is doing? I'd have Wane in as caretaker tomorrow if it was up to me.



Don't be so ridiculous.



You are right it is not the only single factor which is why I said it was a starting point. It is however the most significant change that can be made to influence the clubs future in the short term.



What would you suggest we do if that happened? The fact of the matter is Noble has been a failure at Wigan. His only achievement was saving us from relegation. Thank you Brian, time to move on. He has achieved nothing else and without going over them all again there are plenty of other valid criticisms of Noble's time here as coach.

Dave

Jukesays wrote:DaveO

Who's saying that TL's Wages under his new contract are anyting like what they were under the old one?????

And Why do his wages have to be the ones that pay for a New SH or SO??

What about Coley's wages not likely to be used next year by Coley?
What about The money freed up from Baileys wages???
What about the money freed up possibly from Carmont/Tim Smith & cameron Phelps???

Etc Etc????


Does every decision made have to be Micro managed/analysed/criticised???

Sometimes decisions have to be made that aren't the perfect ones short term however long term will bear fruit.

DaveO wrote:I fail to see what will be done with the wages of other players has to do with an opinion that TL's wages could have been better spent. He was the one out of contract now, not them.

I am sure we will debate what happens to those players and their wages if they leave at the time.

Dave

DaveO wrote:I fail to see what will be done with the wages of other players has to do with an opinion that TL's wages could have been better spent. He was the one out of contract now, not them.

I am sure we will debate what happens to those players and their wages if they leave at the time.

Dave

Jukesays wrote:No reply to the other question then???

Phuzzy wrote:That's assuming you feel TL's wages could have been better spent. That's only your opinion.

Quote:Most of us are more than happy with his re-signing. Therefore why should this be seen as a negative just because you don't agree with it? IL did what he felt best for the club in re-signing a 23 year old, world cup winning player who's dedication to the club cannot be faulted. As I said...most of us agree.

jonh wrote:Just skimmed this thread but think i have the crux of it, and basically i agree the club is moving in the right direction, i think the systems IL has placed in the club will serve it well for the future and potential.

For the first time in a long time you can see where thought is being placed onto the next player to step forward when a player leaves the club.

My main issues revelove around BN, and this for me is the only real big poor decision IL has made.

I do not think IL works alone on recruitment there has to be advice and interaction with the coach and i think any coach worth there salt should have fought to get Ainscough a starting shirt for 2009, rather than look to recruit another outside back and not a Prop, but contracts and situations with attracting a good Prop may not have been as simple as 1+1=2.

As i said at the time i think we missed a real trick renewing BN's deal when someone like Brown was on the market, but i am sure as and when BN leaves, the person in my opinion holding the club back the most now, with the right appointment we will quickly become a team capable of challenging for honours due to the infrastructure and policies lead by IL and his actions.

DaveO wrote:Which one!

Dave

Jukesays wrote:Thank You Jonh!

Despite us disagreeing over the BN issue (And TBH it does look like your right from purely an "On field" perspective although we don't know if Brown or any other coach would/could have done any better??) I think you have looked at the Big Picture!

Again I agree with your statements about recruitment over players and it not being as simple as 1+1 = 2 as you put it but I would add that Maybe, just Maybe that's what IL had to cope with at the point he gave BN an extra 12 months.

The main crux of my post was to draw realistic and reasonable parallels to what happened at the start of our last great Era and the understanding that for 10 years before that and for 3/4/5 years after 1980 we had a Real Dearth of success/talent at the club!

Things arent as bad as some people would like us to believe and every time a wrong decision is made (Which they will) they would love us to believe it's the end of the world!