DaveO wrote:Give over. They have had more than enough time.
The entire recruitment looks haphazard. We have signed Phelps, Pryce, Roberts and Gleeson when we needed a prop. It is not as if Gleeson was the only back we signed when we needed a prop. There was obviously enough cash around to sign one given we signed the first three never mind Gleeson.
It is a mistake (to put it mildly) to have gone down this route and I do not accept it is all IL's doing. Noble must carry the can and therefore the fact we are light in the front row but try and play as if we are not is down to him.
But recruitment aside Noble needs to go because he has been exposed as a poor coach.
Dave
For me, you are wrong. If only it was that simple to put team matters right...
For a start, to belive Nobby is 100% responsible for recruitment is laughable and he is not a poor coach.
Just my view of course.
Red Hot Jalapeno wrote:You can continue to keep thinking deeply about it all but the fact is we did not replace Barrett leaving us with no real halfback in the entire squad and the props are terrible. No matter which way you dress it up that is 2 of the most important areas on the field that we are awful in. You simply cannot play the game being so poor in those areas and expect great things to happen no matter who the coach is.
You don't have to think deeply about it to recognise that we don't unload in the tackle often enough, don't play the ball quickly enough, hang back in defence, kick away possession too often and too early, don't use our dummy rummers properly, are too shallow in attack, substitute at the wrong time, don't bring our runners through from depth, go to sleep when we get ahead, drop endless numbes of passes, are apparently unfit, poorly conditioned, not motivated, etc.
None of these things are complicated. Junior sides have mastered them. Yet we almost invariably get them wrong.
We used to be the inventors of sophisticated game plans and tactics. Now we can't even do the basics right. I've avoided being so forthright about it in the past, but the time's come to speak the embarrassing truth because the future of Wigan as an RL force is more important than one man's diminishing reputation. The head-coach is not adquate for this level of football.
The Catalan fixture was a nghtmare.
Four days after playing Saints we have to go there and face that lot.
Noble knew we couldn't beat them down the middle so we went round the outside. We had the beating of them in the backs and it showed.
Walters knew they could beat us down the middle and easily. He also had to watch the outside as knows what Roberts and Gleeson are capable of between them.
Wigan went round the outside and were 4-14 up after 20 mins. The interchage killed us with Bailey also going off. They scored every try up the middle where we were weakest and their big men blew us away!
Last 10 mins, admitted when the game was over, we score two again one up the middle by Sam T and on the outside by Pat.
We need a prop immediately, whether there's one available is another matter entirely. We will need another when Coley goes next year.
We need a play maker halfback and a bulky 2nd row/prop wouldn't do any harm.
Thank God Jamal Fakir didn't play, he's the type of player Wigan need. Can play prop/2nd row, huge man and an enforcer.
We've now all the backs we need and the urgent priority has to be a prop.
I know everyone who went there was as disappointed as I was. Looking at the league, honestly say, who would have beaten Catalan in the South of France only four days after a club's main derby of the year.
I'm not sure who could have won that fixture.
We didn't come close but who would have?
Joined: Nov 20 2002 Posts: 3136 Location: Ashton,Wigan
Father Ted wrote:The Catalan fixture was a nghtmare. Four days after playing Saints we have to go there and face that lot. Noble knew we couldn't beat them down the middle so we went round the outside. We had the beating of them in the backs and it showed. Walters knew they could beat us down the middle and easily. He also had to watch the outside as knows what Roberts and Gleeson are capable of between them. Wigan went round the outside and were 4-14 up after 20 mins. The interchage killed us with Bailey also going off. They scored every try up the middle where we were weakest and their big men blew us away! Last 10 mins, admitted when the game was over, we score two again one up the middle by Sam T and on the outside by Pat. We need a prop immediately, whether there's one available is another matter entirely. We will need another when Coley goes next year. We need a play maker halfback and a bulky 2nd row/prop wouldn't do any harm. Thank God Jamal Fakir didn't play, he's the type of player Wigan need. Can play prop/2nd row, huge man and an enforcer. We've now all the backs we need and the urgent priority has to be a prop. I know everyone who went there was as disappointed as I was. Looking at the league, honestly say, who would have beaten Catalan in the South of France only four days after a club's main derby of the year. I'm not sure who could have won that fixture. We didn't come close but who would have?
Very true,people have forgot that it was a massive task for any team to win that game especially given we lost Carmont and Hock but had we managed to win most of the earlier season games nobody would be that bothered. The problem is we have not managed to win most of our other games and the Catalans game just highlighted the weakness in our squad.
Joined: May 24 2006 Posts: 3528 Location: WIGAN - THE HOME OF RUGBY LEAGUE
Father Ted wrote:The Catalan fixture was a nghtmare. Four days after playing Saints we have to go there and face that lot. Noble knew we couldn't beat them down the middle so we went round the outside. We had the beating of them in the backs and it showed. Walters knew they could beat us down the middle and easily. He also had to watch the outside as knows what Roberts and Gleeson are capable of between them. Wigan went round the outside and were 4-14 up after 20 mins. The interchage killed us with Bailey also going off. They scored every try up the middle where we were weakest and their big men blew us away! Last 10 mins, admitted when the game was over, we score two again one up the middle by Sam T and on the outside by Pat. We need a prop immediately, whether there's one available is another matter entirely. We will need another when Coley goes next year. We need a play maker halfback and a bulky 2nd row/prop wouldn't do any harm. Thank God Jamal Fakir didn't play, he's the type of player Wigan need. Can play prop/2nd row, huge man and an enforcer. We've now all the backs we need and the urgent priority has to be a prop. I know everyone who went there was as disappointed as I was. Looking at the league, honestly say, who would have beaten Catalan in the South of France only four days after a club's main derby of the year. I'm not sure who could have won that fixture. We didn't come close but who would have?
Does that mean Fielden is staying
WIGAN RLFC IS MORE THAN A RUGBY CLUB - IT'S A RELIGION There will always be a Wigan Warriors no matter what the bitter & twisted blues say
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
flyingkelvin wrote:For me, you are wrong. If only it was that simple to put team matters right... For a start, to belive Nobby is 100% responsible for recruitment is laughable and he is not a poor coach. Just my view of course.
It is clear we need a prop but I also don't think that alone would fix it and have never suggested it would. That would require the coach to coach the team better. We could recruit who we liked but until we play differently there will be no improvement. That is why Noble is a poor coach and for the detail as to why see Crunchers post.
Dave
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
DaveO wrote:He has been long enough at Wigan for his performance here to influence whether he is considered a good coach or not. His performance as coach at Wigan is pretty dire and would IMO have been even worse were it not for Barrett for two seasons.
Harking back to his Bradford days and saying that proves he is a good coach fly's in the face of the evidence that has been on show weekly since 2007.
You make it sound as if he was/is hamstrung to do anything about the current level of performance we are getting from the team. I can't seriously believe you think he can have so little influence on the group of players we have, several of which are current internationals.
Dave
Interestingly, since the start of 1999 you've had the following coaches:
John Monie (sacked July 99)
Andy Goodway (sacked Dec. 99)
Frank Endacott (sacked May 01)
Stuart Raper (sacked July 03)
Mike Gregory (left due to illness 04)
Denis Betts (sacked 05)
Ian Millward (sacked 06)
Brian Noble
The only silverware you won in that time was the Challenge Cup in 2002 under Stuart Raper (although you won the league in 98 with Monie (I think) at the helm).
Monie was a good coach with a good track record, Endacott was an international coach, Millward had great success with both Leigh and St. Helens and Nobby had great success at Bradford. Obviously, I'm an outsider looking in, but it would suggest that there's something other than the head coach that's an influence here. It may be similar to what happened at Leeds where they seemed to spend lots of money on all sorts but never quite won anything until around 1999. And no-one seemed to be able to sort it all out.
I'd suggest that there's much more to this than meets the eye....
Cruncher wrote:You don't have to think deeply about it to recognise that we don't unload in the tackle often enough, don't play the ball quickly enough, hang back in defence, kick away possession too often and too early, don't use our dummy rummers properly, are too shallow in attack, substitute at the wrong time, don't bring our runners through from depth, go to sleep when we get ahead, drop endless numbes of passes, are apparently unfit, poorly conditioned, not motivated, etc.
None of these things are complicated. Junior sides have mastered them. Yet we almost invariably get them wrong.
Nail on the head for me. My problem with Noble is watching the same schoolboy errors (listed above) which have been the one constant through his tenure at Wigan. These errors have nothing to do with poor recruitment.
The reason I mentioned Coley is that he's OOC end of this season.
I didn't mention Fielden as he's OOC end of 2010.
I've no knowledge of him leaving this year and deduced that he'd see out his contract therefore be with us for the 2010 season.
DaveO wrote:It is clear we need a prop but I also don't think that alone would fix it and have never suggested it would. That would require the coach to coach the team better. We could recruit who we liked but until we play differently there will be no improvement. That is why Noble is a poor coach and for the detail as to why see Crunchers post.
Dave
I disagree again, players are not robots, of course we would play differently with better players, what a mad suggestion!
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