As you say look at the bigger picture. Ignoring the scoreboard, we were as likely to win the game at Headingley last season as we were the year before.

So Dave O is right.

Sometimes Dave O will be right and sometimes he will be wrong.

That makes no sense at all. Why did we even bother turning up then? Of course we could of won at Headingely. We had won there plenty times before there was no reason we couldnt win at Headingley then go on and win the Grand Final. We had as much chance of winning as Leeds or Saints did at that point.

You have just made a post saying you cannot believe the negativity on here. I think you shouldgo back and edit it.

See what I mean Rogues

RHJ you misunderstood my post. If you analyse both games. Yes, the score differed but in the cold light of day we were well beaten in both matches. Last season, leeds bombed plenty of tries, we defended heroically especially Calderwood but we hardly thretened and for long periods of the second half we could not get out of our own half.

I bleed Cherry and White but I do not wear glasses. When we were good and this may sound arrogant I knew if we turned up and played anywhere near our best we would win. The bigger the match the more I was sure. That is IMO how you measure whether you are the best team in any competition. I will not say how I view Wigan 2009.

People need to relax. RHJ you posted wearing your Mr Angry Platform Boots. Take them off.

How can you honestly say we had an equal chance of winning as the other two? It's no coincidence that no one has ever won the GF from bellow third place it’s always gonna be one game to far. There is also a big difference in winning at Headingly during the weekly rounds and winning in a playoff semi final after three brutal weeks of play off football.

We need to be more consistent in the weekly rounds if we want to make that next step up. Sunday was the final straw for me after two full seasons under Noble of total inconsistency from week to week. He can’t motivate his team nor does he seem able to maintain any sort of consistent run’s. The team isn’t moving forward with him as coach, we play boring predictable rugby with no plan B.

LOL im not angry at all,its my birthday! The point i am trying to get across (but you have taken the conversation elsewhere) is that you do not judge progress on how many games you may have won on the trot.

Lets look at this another way. In 2007 we where one step from Old Trafford. Last year we where one step from Old Trafford and looking more likely to get there than we did the year before. In 2007 we were lucky to get to that final eliminater. In 2008 we actually cruised to it and we went to France and destroyed the so called 3rd best team in the comp. There was every chance we could of done it and made the GF. For you to say we had no chance (which you eluded to in your origanl post) is completely wrong. You say we only got close to Leeds because of heroic defence. Well isnt that all part and parcel of the game? I dont understand what your getting at but IMO we have made progress under Noble the past 2 seasons,the next step is always the hardest bit-going from also rans to winning trophys.

How can you say we didnt? We had just destroyed Catalan in France whilst Leeds had looked poor against Saints. There was no reason we could not of beaten Leeds.

Jeez,some people are beaten before a game is started. I really hope the players dont think like you guys otherwise we might as well give up now!

Happy Birthday RHJ

I as going to send you the Wakefield DVD but you are too nice.

We could have beaten Leeds, but we did not, we were no nearer the GF than we were the year before. We came third in a 2 hourse race again, we did not get any closer to the 2 in terms of performance than we did in 07, infact based on perfromance we lost ground.

Point for and against in my opinion is the best indication/stat you can use to judge progression, but personally i prefer to use the eyes in my head, and from what i saw we were no closer to winning anything in 08 than we were in 07.

I agree.

The development under Noble has slowed, which leads us back to the question of is he the man to take us on the next step - I still believe he is - I know you disagree - we have argued many times before on this issue.

This season is that test for Noble.

Yea, ditto. I'd have txt you, but I couldn't be bothered!!