FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home Leigh Leopards Hull Kingston Rovers



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:24 pm 
First Team Player
Fringe Player
User avatar

Joined: Nov 13 2020
Posts: 623
Hull Kingston Rovers, are hours away from playing in the 2024 Super League Grand Final, which quite frankly is an amazing achievement. I have been considering how they got there, and if there is a timeline it all converges on 12th August 2023. The same day that Leigh broke a 52 year hoodoo and lifted the Challenge Cup. On that day Leigh went into the final having already defeated Rovers both Home and Away. Although evenly matched, Leigh had the measure of KR and in the end the game needed to be decided by Golden Point. Since this point the gap between Hull KR and Leigh has become a chasm many games between the two teams (mostly played at Craven Park) have gone the way of the Robins.
Hull KR took that defeat as a sign and have been ruthless in the transfer market and are looking even stronger for the 2025 season regardless of what happens today. Rovers have become the road map for building a successful club, and in my opinion have achieved this by being more ruthless than teams like Leigh. Players have come onto the market that Leigh have been linked to or that I as a rabid fan would like to see Leopard print.
Wakefield were relegated at the end of the 2023 season and as per usual practice the remaining Super League team picked the carcass clean. Tanginoa and Whitbread are both players that were linked to Leigh but both turned up in East Hull and became integral in the 2024 team. Having lost a starting halfback, Leigh could have been interested in Tyrone May, who was instrumental in a successful season at Catalans, but true to form he appears at Craven Park. The strangest example was possibly the menage a trois with Oliver Gildart, signing for Hull KR and appearing on loan at the LSV.
The rollcall for 2025 is no different, Jared Waerea-Hargreaves might have been considered a good fit for a team losing Amone, O’Donnell and Asiata, but no KR snap up a marquee forward. Rhyse Martin turned down an extension at the Rhinos, Leigh offered what was reported to be a sizeable contract, before dropping out with interest from both Leeds and Warrington. Guess what? he signs for the Robins.
The question must be raised as to how certain teams are able to fit their talented squads into a Salary capped sport. Beaumont has stated that Leigh are salary capped and can only support around 21 squad players, with handful of reserves and both today’s Grand Final teams are bursting with talent. It is a shame the salary cap is not more transparent for the fans, so we can all see the creative accounting going on at Wigan and Hull KR.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 8:36 pm 
Club Coach
Club Captain

Joined: Feb 16 2005
Posts: 2501
Location: Landan
It won't have anything to do with creative accounting. The live auditing of the cap will see to that.

The fact that we have no academy, and only had a reserve team established this year means we wont get as much value for our salary cap as other teams. There are dispensations on salary cap for club trained players, plus a lower cap value for club trained marquee players.

We've used around 30 players this year. And all of them have had to be recruited from other clubs. We're probably spending more money on players 21-30 than anyone else in SL, who will be bringing players through as fringe players. As a result we probably can't offer as much to players that we want to bring in to improve the 13 as KR were able to last year. Because they have their academy and reserves setup, they could focus on quality, not quantity like us.

All of the above shows how incredible a job that Chester and Lam have done this last three years.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:47 am 
International Star
Academy Player
User avatar

Joined: May 11 2015
Posts: 418
Of all the SL players mentioned for me personally not getting Martin was the only let down and I say that from the perspective of how he is already a solid and useful player, the others need the touch of a Lam (or indeed Peters) to get them to a similar solid and consistent level.

I think we're at the start of another Wigan dynasty, the rest of us will be fighting for the spoils of any of the few pie errors that may be presented and KR seen to have actually targeted next season as their real breakout year and full credit to them.

I'm comfortable if we can maintain being one of the others with them, saints wire and probably Salford and Cats

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 8:29 pm 
Academy Player
Academy Player

Joined: Sep 07 2023
Posts: 317
LeythIg wrote:It won't have anything to do with creative accounting. The live auditing of the cap will see to that.

The fact that we have no academy, and only had a reserve team established this year means we wont get as much value for our salary cap as other teams. There are dispensations on salary cap for club trained players, plus a lower cap value for club trained marquee players.

We've used around 30 players this year. And all of them have had to be recruited from other clubs. We're probably spending more money on players 21-30 than anyone else in SL, who will be bringing players through as fringe players. As a result we probably can't offer as much to players that we want to bring in to improve the 13 as KR were able to last year. Because they have their academy and reserves setup, they could focus on quality, not quantity like us.

All of the above shows how incredible a job that Chester and Lam have done this last three years.


If a team wanted to pay a player from a different company or from the owners back pocket, how would the salary cap audit pick it up?

It wouldn’t

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:35 am 
Club Coach
Club Captain

Joined: Feb 16 2005
Posts: 2501
Location: Landan
Code:
[code][quote][/quote][/code]
RobRiches wrote:If a team wanted to pay a player from a different company or from the owners back pocket, how would the salary cap audit pick it up?

It wouldn’t


That would require a player to sign a contract for a salary less than what they hope to actually receive, and hope that a third party continues to top it up. The club would also be relying on the third party continues with payments.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:52 am 
Player Coach
International Star

Joined: Jul 05 2006
Posts: 8601
As a Hull fan, I don't think KR are abusing the cap. If you look at their squad depth for next year, it was in the HDM a couple of days ago, they are very cap heavy in the first 17/18. After that, their depth is non existant and is down to kids with no SL experience at all. Further showing that their luck with injuries this year keeping their players on the pitch. May and Lewis both played 30 games in the halves for example

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:56 am 
Club Coach
Club Captain

Joined: Feb 16 2005
Posts: 2501
Location: Landan
Irregs#16 wrote:As a Hull fan, I don't think KR are abusing the cap. If you look at their squad depth for next year, it was in the HDM a couple of days ago, they are very cap heavy in the first 17/18. After that, their depth is non existant and is down to kids with no SL experience at all. Further showing that their luck with injuries this year keeping their players on the pitch. May and Lewis both played 30 games in the halves for example


And I'm pretty sure that they won't be able to play that many games next year, with the limits being introduced, so any lack of depth will be more exposed.

The better the kids coming through are, the more depth you will have. Leigh were likely paying Ben McNamara more than Wigan were paying Tom Farrimond. Probably even paying Jack Nisbet as much as Zak Eckersley was on this year.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:35 am 
Player Coach
Fringe Player
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19 2005
Posts: 877
I think the missing out on Martin wil be more down to his agent Ayoub who has a habit of messing clubs about with contracts trying to get more money, lachlan Lam, Blake Ferguson and Ricky Leutele are all examples of this and Derek Alluded to it on the Super League Raw podcast, it cost Leutele a new contract with the Leopards and I think we will probably see the back of Lachlan Lam at the end of 2025 unless he changes agent, it’s no coincidence he was poor the back 1/4 of the season.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:23 pm 
First Team Player
Fringe Player
User avatar

Joined: Nov 13 2020
Posts: 623
Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions.

Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management:
Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon)
Blake Ferguson (Retired)
Jackson Hastings
Joe Shorrocks
Josh Drinkwater
Ken Sio
Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread)
Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC)
Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL)
Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread)
Tom Amone
Zak Hardaker
Ricky Leutele
Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions.

Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management:
Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon)
Blake Ferguson (Retired)
Jackson Hastings
Joe Shorrocks
Josh Drinkwater
Ken Sio
Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread)
Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC)
Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL)
Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread)
Tom Amone
Zak Hardaker
Ricky Leutele

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Hull Kingston Rovers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:59 pm 
Club Coach
Club Captain

Joined: Feb 16 2005
Posts: 2501
Location: Landan
Septimius Severus wrote:Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions.

Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management:
Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon)
Blake Ferguson (Retired)
Jackson Hastings
Joe Shorrocks
Josh Drinkwater
Ken Sio
Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread)
Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC)
Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL)
Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread)
Tom Amone
Zak Hardaker
Ricky Leutele


I believe there were issues Tom Amone and links to NRL as well.

Trouble is, if you refuse to deal with a particular agent, you could cut your nose to spite your own face, if they represent a player who would be a good fit.
Septimius Severus wrote:Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions.

Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management:
Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon)
Blake Ferguson (Retired)
Jackson Hastings
Joe Shorrocks
Josh Drinkwater
Ken Sio
Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread)
Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC)
Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL)
Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread)
Tom Amone
Zak Hardaker
Ricky Leutele


I believe there were issues Tom Amone and links to NRL as well.

Trouble is, if you refuse to deal with a particular agent, you could cut your nose to spite your own face, if they represent a player who would be a good fit.

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 





It is currently Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:07 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:07 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
18m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40941
19m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63428
21m
Film game
Boss Hog
6338
31m
Recruitment rumours and links
karetaker
3696
Recent
Rumours thread
JamieRobinso
2579
Recent
Pre-season
rugbyleague8
24
Recent
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
ComeOnYouUll
167
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
595
Recent
Red Bull
karetaker
5
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leeds owl
2723
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
4m
ONeill
Father Ted
25
5m
Red Bull
karetaker
5
6m
Film game
Boss Hog
6338
8m
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Zig
3052
11m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leeds owl
2723
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Red Bull
karetaker
5
TODAY
Bulls TV
Wigan Bull
4
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Playing Squad 2025
J7P1
11
TODAY
The Shay
Encouraged
7
TODAY
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of the Year at BBC Sports Personality Awards
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
BBC SPOTY Team of the year
muttywhitedo
11
TODAY
Pre Season Thread
dddooommm
13
TODAY
Trinity Heritage Podcast Quiz
PopTart
3
TODAY
New Shirts
Kick and cha
4
TODAY
Sizing on womens shirts
WillCherno
1
TODAY
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
New Roles for HULL KR
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Questions regarding seeing a game at Bradford
Fr13daY
3
TODAY
Alec Tuitavake
Jack Gaskell
5
TODAY
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Jet2 has signed a major sponsorship deal with the Leigh Leopards for the 2025 Betfred Super League season
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Salford
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
ONeill
Father Ted
25
TODAY
Thirkill and Hood complete Hull FC takeover
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Why was our average crowd so poor compared to other clubs
rubber ducki
28
TODAY
NRL Expansion
Father Ted
11
TODAY
Pre-season
rugbyleague8
24
TODAY
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
TODAY
Takeover
UllFC
35
TODAY
RIP Syd Hynes
LeedsLurch
10
TODAY
Small squad numbers
Chesterrhino
7
TODAY
Hopes and Dreams for a New Season
Jack Gaskell
15
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of..
327
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons..
185
New Roles for HULL KR...
177
Jet2 has signed a major sponso..
284
Thirkill and Hood complete Hul..
300
Captains Challenge for Televis..
628
England Women Las Vegas train-..
806
Opening Championship and Leagu..
990
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
2338
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
1374
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1977
England's Women Demolish The W..
1815
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
2049
Operational Rules Tribunal â..
1770
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
2029
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
18m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40941
19m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63428
21m
Film game
Boss Hog
6338
31m
Recruitment rumours and links
karetaker
3696
Recent
Rumours thread
JamieRobinso
2579
Recent
Pre-season
rugbyleague8
24
Recent
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
ComeOnYouUll
167
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
595
Recent
Red Bull
karetaker
5
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leeds owl
2723
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
4m
ONeill
Father Ted
25
5m
Red Bull
karetaker
5
6m
Film game
Boss Hog
6338
8m
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Zig
3052
11m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
leeds owl
2723
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Red Bull
karetaker
5
TODAY
Bulls TV
Wigan Bull
4
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Playing Squad 2025
J7P1
11
TODAY
The Shay
Encouraged
7
TODAY
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of the Year at BBC Sports Personality Awards
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
BBC SPOTY Team of the year
muttywhitedo
11
TODAY
Pre Season Thread
dddooommm
13
TODAY
Trinity Heritage Podcast Quiz
PopTart
3
TODAY
New Shirts
Kick and cha
4
TODAY
Sizing on womens shirts
WillCherno
1
TODAY
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
New Roles for HULL KR
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Questions regarding seeing a game at Bradford
Fr13daY
3
TODAY
Alec Tuitavake
Jack Gaskell
5
TODAY
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Jet2 has signed a major sponsorship deal with the Leigh Leopards for the 2025 Betfred Super League season
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Salford
Huddersfield
2
TODAY
ONeill
Father Ted
25
TODAY
Thirkill and Hood complete Hull FC takeover
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Why was our average crowd so poor compared to other clubs
rubber ducki
28
TODAY
NRL Expansion
Father Ted
11
TODAY
Pre-season
rugbyleague8
24
TODAY
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
TODAY
Takeover
UllFC
35
TODAY
RIP Syd Hynes
LeedsLurch
10
TODAY
Small squad numbers
Chesterrhino
7
TODAY
Hopes and Dreams for a New Season
Jack Gaskell
15
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors crowned Team of..
327
Ben Lam Leaves Dragons..
185
New Roles for HULL KR...
177
Jet2 has signed a major sponso..
284
Thirkill and Hood complete Hul..
300
Captains Challenge for Televis..
628
England Women Las Vegas train-..
806
Opening Championship and Leagu..
990
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
2338
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
1374
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1977
England's Women Demolish The W..
1815
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
2049
Operational Rules Tribunal â..
1770
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
2029


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.