hmm I think that it ill have opened his eyes to how a professional sucessful club is ran. his form automatically changed as soon as he turned to for wigan.



I think most fans will be sceptical about his return and he will be asked to "prove" himself which I dont think he has to do, he is a grand final winner and was instrumental in their succesfull season which is ironic given most people on here were talking about him being average and a mid table centre ?



I have maintained for a long time we are toothless in the centre and I do think its a very important position, the best centres in the league throughout super league history have all ended up as grand final winners we have been lacking in this for an awful ling time king and tai look to be a more strike orientated pair with wrench to cover for them .



ratchford is a hard player to asses as he is competent in many positions but excels in none he has probably been a victim of his own versatility and caused many coaches headaches of where to fit him in. theoretically if we did not have ratchford we could have signed an alternative that the coach wanted and fitted into his plans.

As mentioned there were some off field issues that affected his reputation within the club, moving in to a new environment - especially one like Wigan - It's always easier to 'tow the line'. The issue is the salary he is on which obviously isn't his fault. For the money he should be one of the best strike centres in the competition, he isn't he's solid, dependable and does his job well but he's not going to create something from nothing.



He's a positive person, so doesn't surprise me he's been vocal how much he enjoyed his time at Wigan - he did the same at Warrington for 95% of his career so far and I'd expect that to continue in 2024.



At the end of the day, Powell wanted him gone, probably because of his salary as much as Powell waning to enable change of attitude within the squad. Powell wanted to remodel the squad playing wise, having that kind of salary available by moving King on was probably very tempting for Powell - especially if there were off field issues. He also brought in a better player IMO in Wardle, real shame we couldn't keep hold of him.



Powell is gone, King is back, I'm sure as long he is being seen to be putting in the effort he will be welcomed back.

I still just don't see this "wonder centre". He is not even the best centre at Wigan. He is solid, hard to put down, offloads freely and good at catching cross field kicks. He is not particularly evasive, or fast, and I have never seen him make space from nothing and slip a pass to his winger.



No doubt he had a better season with Wigan in 2023 than he did with us in the season previously where I think he managed 1 or 2 tries in the half season that followed his contract extension before he was ejected. I congratulate him on his GF win but that does not make him an exceptional player. Ryan Bailey, (the oft cited example), has a bucket full of GF wins.



But we will see when he comes back, clean slate.

I’m not sure on this. King has been superb this year, not just in those glossy areas but in carries, meters, offloads, tackle busts… he has contributed to the team really well. Still made double figures for both tries and assists.



In truth, he’s done everything that Ratchford and Matautia didn’t in 2023.



Back in the England squad again too, granted without Farnworth available so might not have made it without that, but Wane (who has an inside view to his year being inside the Wigan system) must like what he has seen.



It was difficult to watch our player in a Wigan kit winning the grand final at the weekend. Even worse that we were paying part of his salary. Sad indictment of the management of the club over the past few years.

Completely agree with this. He has been superb for Wigan.



I’m struggling to understand what people expect from a centre these days.



I think people have this perception that good centres have to make tackle busts every carry like Inglis in his prime, have the pace of Offiah, the offload of Gene Miles and defensive capabilities of Dean Bell.



I genuinely cannot think of many centres in the modern game on either side of the World that have this mystical “strike” ability people seem to crave.



The modern game generally sees the primary creator of tries to the winger as the fullback he generally also provides the strike.



King when used to his strengths is an excellent centre.



Strong carry, great work ethic, good offload and can put his winger away.



This whole create something out of nothing line is almost like people think SL is under 12s rugby.



Defences are generally very well organised. All players rely on space except the very special ones and they tend to be fullbacks.



I’d much rather Wigan retained King than had to recruit Keighran.



Wardle has caught the headlines in the last couple of months but over the course of the year King has been the more effective of the 2 in 2023.

OK I don't agree with the "superb" adjective. If we are going into stats he still misses a lot of tackles 46/362 and I have never been convinced of his defensive reads or positioning. But that's all fine we can disagree. If I could have the choice I would much prefer Wardle.

Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?

Fair enough. Don't forget I am probably jaundiced after watching him sulking for half a season before Powell ejected him. Anyway, hypothetical question, if faced with a choice of losing King or Wardle, which one would you keep?

crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!

Quote jonh="jonh"Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?'" No. He was in decent form, signed the massive contract under Price in May 2021 then the form fell off a cliff. Then Powell came in and they had a fall out. Quote jonh="Daryl Powell"I want a certain type of centre and to be fair to Toby, there’s no doubt that he’s got a lot of potential but after he got his contract here last year he kind of stalled'" https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote jonh="jonh"Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?'" No. He was in decent form, signed the massive contract under Price in May 2021 then the form fell off a cliff. Then Powell came in and they had a fall out. Quote jonh="Daryl Powell"I want a certain type of centre and to be fair to Toby, there’s no doubt that he’s got a lot of potential but after he got his contract here last year he kind of stalled'" https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote The_runaround="The_runaround"crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!'" See the quote from Powell. He was a "professional person". Toby was poor for us after he got his contract, that is undisputed fact. Huddersfield didn't want to keep him either. He is a different player now at Wigan. No doubt due to their standards and professionalism. I am just sceptical of his character and attitude. Let's see what player we get back. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote The_runaround="The_runaround"crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!'" See the quote from Powell. He was a "professional person". Toby was poor for us after he got his contract, that is undisputed fact. Huddersfield didn't want to keep him either. He is a different player now at Wigan. No doubt due to their standards and professionalism. I am just sceptical of his character and attitude. Let's see what player we get back. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

If Burgess wants king back then I'm good with it. I always liked Toby King and I think the step out of his comfort zone and year with Wigan will see him return to us a much more mature and better all round player. I'm not sure about Tai, I haven't seen anything of him, but again if Burgess wants him then that will be good enough for me until I've seen enough to form an opinion on him.



I think we will be a lot better in the centres next season, its a very low bar to compare against though.

Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left.



Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left.



As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year.



I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.

Quote jonh="jonh"Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left. Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left. As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year. I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.'" King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?

Quote jonh="jonh"Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left. Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left. As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year. I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.'" King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?

Yes I agree. I am hoping we will see a big change under Burgess. I am also painfully aware I was hoping the same thing two years ago with Powell.



All will be revealed.

Quote Alffi_7="Alffi_7"King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?'" Covered this when you lot were all slating him. Looked back over his highlights reel and nearly all of his plays came on the right. He was and still is a right centre.

Quote Alffi_7="Alffi_7"King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?'" Covered this when you lot were all slating him. Looked back over his highlights reel and nearly all of his plays came on the right. He was and still is a right centre.

This quote would appear to completely negate your argument that it was Warrington moving him to the left that caused the loss of form.

Look at his form right to left.



He’s a right centre.



I watched him as a junior enough to know that before his move to the pro game.



Look at his highlights reel and tell me where his best form is. Done to death when you lot were telling me he was terrible pick up for Wigan when he signed…whilst also telling me Wigan hadn’t signed Wardle before he joined Wire and you might be able to retain him…which he had and you couldn’t despite what Powell was saying.



Go find the thread. Not going through it all again.

you were wrong then and you're wrong now, last season not withstanding

You appear to be blissfully unaware that you are forwarding an argument where you state that you know better which side he prefers to play on than the player himself. You put forward an argument that attempted to pin point his move to left centre as to the drop in form. Despite the fact he was given his lucrative contract whilst playing left centre. I feel this discussion has reached the end. Most sensible people would accept that, on balance, the player probably knows himself which his preferred side.



For the avoidance of doubt I made no point in relation to Wardle, or Powell, or highlight reels in my statement, that's just noise you belatedly drew into your ever weakening argument.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Players say things, doesn’t mean they are true if it suits the moment.



Powell saying Wardle could be retained…he couldn’t.



Smithies saying it’s just rumours he’s going to NRL, it isn’t.



Cooper and King being the issue at Wire…they weren’t.



Interesting what an agenda can influence.

So your argument has developed on to King being purposefully deceitful in the Warrington Guardian article now to suit an, as yet, undisclosed hidden agenda?

Deceitful or just going with the narrative as he had been moved to the left.



Scored more tries, assisted more tries and got an England Knights call in 2019 on the right. Got another England full call in 2023.



Played in World Cup for Ireland on the right.



In fact his stats were also better in 2018 than they were in 2020.



His stats are back up to those levels in 2023, must be a coincidence he is back on the right.



Definitely a left centre……



The reason he shifted I’m guessing was to accommodate Gelling who was a right side secondrow who transitioned to centre and was even more dominant right edge than King.

In conclusion he's bog average on one side of the field and, at best, slightly above average on t'other.



I've nothing against King, he does a job but that job for me is not what I wistfully want from a centre.....still he brings the ball away from the line strongly, I'll look forward to watching that in awe next season.