That is what I was getting at really; the captian is an extension of the coaching on the field and acts as a mouthpiece. However what I was saying is overstated is this concept of a 100% all action shouty, talky type. I would rather all players acted with such leadership qualities.

Who are the 14 skippers in SL?

Of course you were lol, with Wayne Bennett confirming that the role of a captain is understated you then change track.



I`m not sure where you get this notion from that a captain is an extension of the coaching and acts as a mouthpiece, every player will know his role on the pitch, every player will know the set moves, every player will be aware of the game plan especially the key play makers and the kicker as they will have trained to it during the week, a captain will just remind players now and then what they have been doing all week and and to keep their minds on the job especially after a try has been concveded. His main role is a motivational one and to give his team mates a little confidence boost every now and then when needed especially after a mistake, they are like an aggressive version of a nanny on the pitch which is to look after their team mates.

If anything needs changing during a game then instructions are sent on via the water carriers or subs to the main playmakers and kickers whether they are the captain or not, the captain is there to lift the spirits of the team when things are not going to plan and to to give out praise when its called for, like i said above every player in the team knows the game plan, they know the set plays and the captain is their purely as a motivator ala Mike Gregory and many other great captains and motivators.

With due respect to some forwards, they are not the sharpest tools in the box so to overload them with too much info will have a bearing on their performance where they are not focused on what they should be doing first and foremost, i will stand by what i said in that a captains role is a very skilled one and you need someone who is well respected, has good player communication skills, someone who isn`t affraid to lay the law down when the team is underperforming and someone that leads by example.

As i said previously, Adrian Morley is not a big talker and he comes across as very reserved in that area and a player who just wants to get on with playing RL and doing what he does best. If Adrian Morley was potential captain material then why has he only been made captain of his country on just one occasion which was in an experimental side where he was one of the most experienced players on the pitch hence he was made captain.

Anyway this isn`t about Moz as his job to me is to be a front row enforcer and to lay the platform for our backs to have some quality field position along with the rest of our pack, the 2 teams that have been the most successful in SL in recent times have great captains that are not affraid to lay the law down and you quite often see them chatting to the refs during a game just to see what angle he is coming from with the decisions which was something Mike Gregory used to be great at, it gets a sort of bond between the ref and captain of a side.

How many times do you see Moz having a chat to a ref or laying the law down to our players ? Ive seen Moz get penalised and has simply run back into the line, thats fair enough for a normal player to do which shows good dicipline but when its your captain a friendly chat to the ref every now and then (and not a Briers rant and dummy spat) can go a long way in a game, Sinfield is a master of this along with Cunningham at Saints.

Anyway its just a debate and its good to have decent RL debates every now and then.

this is being addressed but it won't be sinfield.

God you really a neanderthal who is seemingly stuck in the 1970s and has got his coaching 'knowledge' from a Maurice Bamford book. Read the next sentence there is no change of track. You then go on and on about the captain being a 'motivator' (clearly your idea of motivation seems to be in proportion to how much they shout)when that is not as essential as being able to communicate what the coach wants the team to acheive, particularly if a change is requitred during the match itself.

Not very interesting ramble about talking to referees as well; you pick Sinfield out when he is getting a deserved reputation for whining unecessarily to the referee. Referees are only human and a player constantly getting in his ear would sometimes have a very negative effect.

And yes, to the more salient points raised by others, the captain should be on the pitch at all times and should really be a pivot player (ideally 6, 7 or 13) for the reasons I mention above about communicating the game plan.

You really are comical with some of your opinions, i can`t be bothered going into some of the dross you post like your Benji Marshall pearler.

Since you started to coach kids you have constantly come on here and talked down to people as if your some sort of Wayne Bennett of the junior ranks, nobody else knows anything about RL now that your coaching juniors.

Just don`t teach them the IMBRL way to play RL which was your grounding for RL as we don`t want the kids getting disolusioned with RL at such an early stage.

If it's an Aussie, there's not many 'leaders' out of contract. (I don't want to join in the 'what is a leader' debate, i'm going off who I think are sort of leader material in my head alone.)

With the above in mind, and your happiness etc, I'd have a wild stab in the dark at Darren Lockyer ?

Why would a leader/ captain be any better if he played the whole game ?personally i would of thought the opposite be true

Player comes off, watches game from different perspective, speaks to the boss, comes back on, relays information.

Granted any player can do that but coming from the captain will hold more wait with the players

I`m not sure how much of the NRL you watch JWP as ive not seen you comment on it much, a player that would solve our loose forwward problem (of which i believe we have one) and he would also be a great captain and a leader would be Alan Tongue at the Raiders, suprisingly he is still only 28 as he seems to have been around forever.

I`m not sure of his contract situation at the min (they don`t mean much these days anyway) but he is a player i believe would come to England at this stage of his career as his rep chances look probably over.

To tell you the truth Rob, until this year, I've watched it all, then this season I had a bit of mither with Setanta, so I'm trying to be stubborn right now, when the IPL starts, I'll give in you see.

I just thought Lockyer kind of fit the criteria for us really. We don't need the age debate right now, but he's been there, done that, would command respect etc, and Smith hasn't had a problem with age before McKenna, Dunneman, Bai, Millard etc. It just felt like the signing that Smith might see as a big piece in the jigsaw, with other pieces, English fellas, your 'kids' etc around it. Maybe not expressing myself very well here, I kinda know what I mean, it just 'felt right'.

I'll think about what I mean more in a little while.

Bradford - Paul Deacon.

Castleford - Ryan Hudson.

Catalans - Thomas Bosc.

Celtic - Jace Van Dijk.

Huddersfield - Brett Hodgson.

Harlequins - Rob Purdham.

Hull FC - Lee Radford.

Hull KR - Mick Vella.

Leeds - Kevin Sinfield.

Salford - Malcom Alker.

St.Helens - Kieron Cunningham.

Wakefield - Jason Demitriou

Warrington - Adrian Morley.

Wigan - Sean O'Loughlin.

At least half of them, if not more, I've never seen hand out a 'b-ollocking or what you might call inspirational speech'.

Oh the irony of you. You are the one starting a thread berating that the current coach and captain don't know what they are doing. And the basis of your argument is that Adrian Morley (one of the most successful British players ever to play the game) is not a good captain because he doesn't shout and wave his arms about and dishes out bollockings. Genius.

And FYI I have coached open age in NWC, youth, junior and school teams for over five years. Inevitably I must have learned something along the way.

(PS the Benji Marshall pearler was I said he looked like he was getting back to his best in the WC. Seems a very odd thing that you find so amusing).

For the avoidance of doubt it's not irony

The comedy of some of your posts holds no bounds, nobody has berated anyone on this thread as you put it, its in your own mind. Thats the problem with this forum sometimes, people put forward a debate and then quite often they will get branded as berating the club or players......

Its called debate, i have an opinion that Adrian Morley isn`t vocal enough as a captain and you obviously believe he can take us forward in that role, anyway most past GB coaches don`t agree with you, some of the best captains in the history of RL have come from the pivot positions and thats where i would prefer we had our captain at either 6/7/9 or 13.

I mentioned on another thread that someone like Alan Tongue is a great example of a captain, its just a pitty he`s been playing in a side thats been in a transition period for too long now and deserves better. Darren Lockyer is another of a captain thats very vocal and is a great example of a leader that takes his side forward, Cameron Smith is the same as was Andrew Johns. You won`t find many slackers that have played in the sides captained by the above names and got away without a verbal dressing down.

Anyway, ive said all i want to say on this subject.

This is you debating;

"Of course you were lol, with Wayne Bennett confirming that the role of a captain is understated you then change track. "

"Just don`t teach them the IMBRL way to play RL which was your grounding for RL as we don`t want the kids getting disolusioned with RL at such an early stage."

Must be great to be so self aware. Keep posting the smilies!

Shame you took your bat and ball home on this one Rob. The role of captain was discussed in RL Extra on The Station Formerly Known as GMR.

They asked Leulai what O Loughlin and Wikki are/were like as captains. Apparently neither are very vocal but both lead by example (Wikki's example presumably being that of a world class RL player, O Loughlin's being a crushingly average ham and egger). Leulai didn't seem to think it mattered how shouty a captain was and that deeds were more important than words.

and out of the 2 most sucessful notably kc + ks . have you seen these two hand out a verbal bashing? cos i aint.

I think it's extremely hard to just go out and 'buy/sign' a leader. For me, it would be a little strange if we done what Hudds have done this year, that being signing an overseas player and making him captain immediately. I just think that a captain is the kind of role you grow into, and I'd much rather it be somebody who's been at the club for a longer period of time. I know he gets his stick, but I think Clarke's a good option at captain, he's already vice and I feel his communication skills are fairly good on the pitch. I'm not sure what he's like off the field, but he comes across as quite a professional lad.


As for the leader/motivator, I'm not sure if it's possible for one player on a rugby field to motivate 12 others. I have no clues about psychology, but is it not possible for the players to take on the responsibility themselves? Instead of having one player shouting at 12, why can't, let's say King, try and motivate Grix? Or Landerson? Why can't Hicks or Westwood give Riley or Gleeson a smack on the backside and gee them up?

When we played Celtic, I seen King speaking, agreeing and kind of giving Grix tips during the game, and I remember when their player knocked on from the kick off and Briers went straight to Riley, give him a pat on the back and said well done. Is it too much to ask for all, or half of the players to be like this? We have experience all over the field, and I feel if we have players giving each other the necessary respect, then the motivational side of things will come with.

What we should get to is a situation where fellas don't need that much leadership really. You look at a Leeds player, they drop a ball or throw a crap pass, their hand goes up as an acknowledgement of rubbishness, but their well aware that they've let the team down, and you can almost sense their desire to put it right, how many times you see in the next set, someone puts in a big shot, or chases the kicker a bit harder, or they force an error etc, and half the team start dishing out high fives, and the initial error maker gets a hair ruffle etc. They don't need picking up, guidance, leadership etc, they are well aware of the expected standards, and well aware of the levels expected of the team etc.

More often that not now, behind the posts, water carrier comes on, he's delivering a specific message from the coach, obviously something that's been noted, a weakness to exploit, or to tighten an area that they are loose etc, and this will finish with a Sinfield or whoever giving a quick hand clap and a "Let's go" and they zoom off back to halfway.

Anyhow, if everyones picking a captain who they'd want, I'll have Ben Westwood as mine. Nobody gives him a mention, I know that he's prone to the odd mad moment, but he puts it in every week, leads from the front and has qualities that I like, he gets my vote.

That is what I think as well. Leadership should come from all players. However the Captian does need strong communication skills as they do need to be able to pass on instructions from the coaching staff and they need to be able to have a reasonable conversation with the referee when needed. That tends to rule Westwood out!

One image I cant get away from is that of Sinfield with his gumshield in his hand, talking. He does a lot of it, To his players and to the ref, he appears to be a good communicator.

I realise that a lot of the players know what to do and when to do it but Sinfield could be just telling his team to keep things tight for another few sets or he could be saying now is the time to start offloading as the opposition is knackered, Again this is likely to be in line with what the water carrier is saying.

Never seen him dish a serious beat down out so as far as I know he could be telling Robbie Burrow that his missus is doing steak and kidney pud for tea?

I have got a lot of respect for Sinfield in terms of how he conducts himself.

I cant belive all the talk of Captain with no mention of Farrell.
Probably the greatest captain I have ever seen

I know where your coming from, in saying that though, Lee Briers was a very vocal captain and got slated for it, folk used to moan like hell on here about his chatter with the referees, so we can't have it both ways. We do have players who communicate alot, Briers & Monas are constantly chattering to the team.

Loads of times I've seen Briers,

a. Talk behind his hand.

b. Put five fingers up on one hand, and one on the other, I think it's to signal 'big next set' or just to let Westwood have an update.

c. Shout '74'.

not as good as ellery hanley.