The majority of sides that cam up went straight back down and did it with poor overseas players and by getting into financial trouble as has been said.

A 3 year franchise system gives every club the chance to improve on what they have and keep their place. Wigan for example went from a Grade B to a Grade A because we now earn the right amount of revenue which we never did due to our Marketing contract with JJB. Widnes improved their licence and so they got in. Crusaders went the other way and it's au revoir to them.

I do think however that Halifax should have been in for Wakefield. Wakefield have gone into admin which is against the licence rules, their ground is a mess, they won't have a new one by the end of 2014 and they don't really offer THAT much on the field. They finished 5th in 2009 but instead of building then finished 11th and this season will probably finish 13th. Halifax have reached two GF's winning one and improved their stadium to the point that SL rugby has been played there.

Whilst not everything should be made public, I think the RFL need to make this public so that each and every RL fan knows what is needed to stay/get in SL because apparently it isn't what we thought it was.

Once again , which teams went up and straight down and got in financial trouble ?

Well maybe you didn't get into any financial trouble, but you're stay wasn't exactly the best was it? Just to remind you:

- Team P W D L F A Diff Pts
1 St Helens 28 24 1 3 1028 537 +491 47
2 Leeds Rhinos 28 22 0 6 1152 505 +647 44
3 Bradford Bulls 28 18 1 9 1038 684 +354 37
4 Warrington Wolves 28 18 0 10 792 702 +90 36
5 Hull FC 28 16 2 10 756 670 +86 32
6 London Broncos 28 13 2 13 800 718 +82 28
7 Wigan Warriors 28 14 0 14 698 718 -20 28
8 Huddersfield Giants 28 12 0 16 742 791 -49 24
9 Salford City Reds 28 11 0 17 549 732 -183 22
10 Wakefield Wildcats 28 10 0 18 716 999 -283 20
11 Widnes Vikings 28 6 1 21 568 1048 -480 13
12 Leigh Centurions 28 2 1 25 445 1210 -765 5

Halifax finished on 0 points after going bust and were relegated. It took them a few years to get back to anything solid. Cas came up and went straight back. Relegated twice in 3 years. Salford yo-yo'd and Hudds were in a mess when they went down IIRC.

Widnes were controversially left out in 2009, but have got their house in order since and deserve their place. Leigh can now begin to get theirs in place ready for 2014. If they don't manage it, they don't deserve it.

So what you posted was bollox

Yes we finished bottom , well somebody has to , every year

Yes Cas went up and down , well so what ?

Salford went down , up , stayed a few years then down again , once agai , so what ?

Yes Huddersfield were in a mess , after spending three years stuck at the bottom , which is my nightmare scenario with franchising

So where is all this ' damage ' caused by P and R ?

So a team coming up and down every year is entertaining is it? A team being relegated from SL but being bigger than the teams below and walking the division is good is it? A team full of overseas players getting tonked every week is good is it?

Didn't Leigh end up in financial trouble of some sort in 2006? (I honestly don't know the answer to this but thought they did) I also see you missed out my Halifax point regards 2003. They have sorted themselves out and deserve to have a crack at SL, but by giving them 3 years means they have the chance to improve year on year and who knows establish themselves in the top 8. Giving them 1 year to get tonked every week will do far more damage.

From 2000 onwards I can see only 2 clubs who stayed up. Salford (at the 2nd attempt) and Hull KR. Cas would have gone straight back down AGAIN in 2008 had it not been for licensing.

Or, put another way, only 2 teams have gone straight back down, Leigh in 2005, and Cas the following year (and they didn't finish bottom!)

More teams yoyo between the Championship & the Premier League in football than that, and I don't see anyone calling for that system to end.

Yes actually it is more interesting both for SL and the Championship ,

In 2006 Leigh sacked a coach and a general manager left as a result of that , also a director resigned , all within one week , no financial bother

Yes Fax eventually ran out of money , so what , was that the fault of P and R ? , or would they have been better being stuck at the bottom of SL year on year like the Giants ?

Salford got promoted and stayed up 3 years , then came down again , Widnes only went down to accommodate the French

No clubs have ' suffered ' because of P and R

Quite right Stan , and let's not forget the fiasco with W1g4n , which would have meant Cas possibly staying up

And Cas in 2008 had it not been for licensing.

Yes somebody has to finish bottom every year , we know , so what ?