I thought he was generally good. I think quite a few who figured in this tournament will have pulled on the England shirt for the last time. We've got to be looking at 2013 so for me that rules out Morley, Peacock and maybe Sinfield on age. Are Chase and Heighington really better than any English born players in their respective positions? Sam (and possibly his brothers) Burgess and Sean O'Loughlin will hopefully be available. As a Wigan fan I know full well what Sam Tomkins is capable of but if he can't produce it on the biggest stage then he can't be classed as an automatic pick. On a positive Reed, Graham, Ellis, Roby look extremely good players and with players like Jones-Bishop, Cudjoe, Broughton, Charnley, Myler, Arundel, Lomax, Makinson and Clarkson coming through we certainly have a base to build on.

Just not good enough. Unlike the game at Wembley, I never once thought 'we can do this'. It was obvious after 60 seconds that it was not happening. It doesn't help when our wingers and fullback all pick the final to bottle it.

Report: http://www.rlfans.com/index.php?fid=43&id=137

Report: http://www.rlfans.com/index.php?fid=43&id=137

Just got back from the game and this is how I see it.

We were lucky to be 8-6 at ht. They carved us up time and again, particularly down the left hand side of our defence. Englands chance to turn the screw came in the opening 10-12 mins of the 2nd half when England had all of the ball, but never set up any plays and it all seemed a bit panic stations. AUs got the first score, and from that point it was clear that they were going to open up and score a few points.

Not blown away with the Aussie backs personally. Lawrence, Inglis (compared to previous years) Uate and Yow Yeh didnt rip any trees up but were lucky to have the brains trust of Lockyer, Thrurston and Smith pulling the strings.

Until England get a settled quality triangle then we simply cannot expect to beat the Australians. These guys are battle hardened by State of Origin not to mention the quality of the NRL league.

I personally didnt think any of our England players looked out of their depth and any alternatives thrown up would have had the same end results.

Not the end of the world but we need to start producing some quality generals asap.

What was so disappointing was how predictable the whole thing was.

10 minutes in and you could see how the last quarter was going to pan out - England collasping as Australia strolled to victory.

I don't see much change in the immediate future, there isn't enough true top level rugby for our players to seriously compete with the Aussies.....Our matches with them will always look like those European football games you get occasionally between Scottish and English clubs, which promise so much, but inevitably just expose the huge gap in class between the leagues.

As for the players themselves??....Well, Hall has come out of this tournament has the brightest point, Reed has potential, but will always reek of a guy playing for us because he can't make the Aussie team, Graham has a huge heart (as we all knew already) and a couple of the other forwards showed the balls for a fight, even if they don't quite have the talent to cut it at the top level....Tomkins disappointed tonight, but has time to improve and come back.

Aside from that, its pretty much back to the drawing board....Chase stunk the place out tonight and will have put off a number of clubs who fancied luring him from Cas in the near future- Sinfield was Sinfield, very game, but exposed as limited, but I suppose that counts for quite a few more of the English squad.

I believe that until we cut the quantity and increase the quality in Super League, then we will never be able to compete at International level....I'm also somebody who thinks that an Origin game (Yorks/Lancs) has to become a priority and something that players actually aspire to take part in, rather than seen as a chore....I'd even cut the joke that is Millenium Magic to fit in this fixture.

Agree with that, especially the County of Origin games. Problem is, similar to English football, Superleague isn't bothered about improving England They will never cut the teams or fixtures or free up time for more Internationals.

Not that it should matter to me as a jock obviously...

The problem with county of origin is what happens to players who aren't from Lancashire or Yorkshire.

The same as the players who arent from NSW or Queensland I guess. Make it so appealing that they want to be involved.

do as they do in australia, where the pick.. personally i don't think the lancs/yorkshire game works to be honest, we need a warm up match, against either the exiles or france (who appear to be improving all the time)

we can't put a decent england team together, how we supposed to put two decent teams together