I mean this in a more abstract sense. Obviously I know the players want to win, fans want to win. I’m not questioning their desire.

But, it feels like now ‘the club’ is content to plod along and try to be competitive. But it doesn’t feel like there’s any real drive, a ruthless desire, to get back to the very top. Win grand finals, titles.

Rugby league, in this country at least, isn’t exactly awash with quality teams. Well-resourced clubs like Leeds need to be pushing HARD to set standards and WIN titles.

It’s a shame where the club is. 20 years ago you could feel the desire, the drive around the club to win. It doesn’t feel like that anymore.

I’d say you’re right, we’ve definitely lost that edge in terms of how hard players will push each other and how badly the club wants to be in and win big games.

Culture starts at the top, and we’ve accepted mediocrity for too long. It also eats strategy for breakfast, and whatever strategy we’ve employed the last 7 or 8 years has fallen victim to our culture.

We are in a never ending transition period until the people continually making poor decisions at the top are replaced. We don't need to keep swapping the coach, we need to change the people who pick the coach and buy the players. The hit rate is abysmal, we can't move forward until it changes.

I don't agree. I think the hunger is there but, in my opinion, the problem is hetherington. supufb dealing with off field stuff his on field decisions have been a disaster for years. project players, a project coach, terrible signings. everything he could possibly get wrong he has

Yes I agree Catalans have replaced us as top 3 teams challenging for dominance with St's and Wigan any of those teams could win the Gf and Wigan look like they have a great bunch of youngsters coming through and are bringing in some quality to complement, St's record speaks for itself and Catalans have a guy who will spend big money and are now a force to be reckoned with, then it's a mixed bag of also rans of which you can't ignore Leigh going well HKR are in the challenge cup final and look to have strengthened for next year Smith senior seems to be turning it around at FC then there is us and Warrington that seem to be in no man's land both clubs are failing on and off the pitch could be worse though Cas are a mess and Salford seem to be in trouble aswell.

On the first point, does he?

On the second, on field there is work to do, but off field we are one of the, if not the, most successful clubs in the country. The off field stuff is essential in building and maintaining a viable going concern. In these days of uncertain broadcasting deals, lets be honest the only thing keeping a number of clubs afloat, this is nothing to be sniffed at.

Hm I don’t think the club has lost ambition for success but I do think our top level decision making has been poor for… 5 years?

The rot has set in towards the end of McDermott. Signings like Achurch become more common than the Garbutts; then a real string of failed project signings trying to do it on the cheap and failed marquee signings whenever we did splash cash.

We haven’t got the squad right in a long time - exacerbated by the impact COVID had on us in particular coming when it did after the stadium redevelopment.

I’m not sure where we stand financially now and at what stage we are servicing debts, but we are still being beaten by clubs who clearly have worse facilities than us and less money to spend on players too.

What the real causes of this are I don’t know bc I don’t know the club well enough but I don’t think it’s lost hunger. I think it’s a combination of some financial strife compounding poor decisions and maybe some bad luck.

The corporate £££ is king

Not winning anywhere near enough for sure. Would be great if this could be rectified with ‘more hunger’. Sadly not as simple as that…..

I don’t think the club has lost hunger, im not even sure what that means, I think we’ve had a perfect storm of incidents that’s seen us underachieve for a few years (it will come back)

End of the Golden Generation, which could have been handled better I agree.

Building of the stadium which was a big undertaking and will have affected financials and money available, but this needed to be done.

Covid, which having just built the stadium and not being able to use it properly which simply couldn’t have been factored in.

Mistakes on coaching front and neglecting the academy.

Unfortunately this will take time to iron out and its not just about throwing money at it because weve seen all to often in RL it just doesn’t work like that and the long term stability of the club is far more important than throwing money about to try and buy titles.