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Youth Development
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Author:  Charlie Brown [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Youth Development
Whilst watching the Exiles game I had a thought, do we have a problem in the youth coaching setup in this country by the fact that our best players are always the biggest. Our forwards could match the Aussie forwards but the backs are significantly poorer, this theme also translates to other sports such as football.

Take Messi for example at an English club it is widely regarded that he wouldn’t be a forward based on the fact English centre forwards have to be big and strong ala Shearer, Carroll and Heskey etc. He would have been converted to a winger probably such as Lennon and Walcott have. He would be significantly less of a player than he is now. We have an emphasis in this country that size seems to be as important as skill.

As kids all develop at different rates is it possible that the ones that develop earliest and become bigger and stronger first will be prominent amongst their peers therefore stand out more and be encouraged more by clubs/coaches. There are of course examples of smaller players such as Sam Tomkins and Burrow making it but there must be a reason why we have been able to create forwards capable of competing in the NRL such as Ellis, Burgess and soon to be Graham whilst any backs that have ventured over have quickly been deemed not good enough.

My question is do we as a country emphasise power and build over core skills? do we select the kids at too early an age meaning the kids later to develop are overlooked for the bigger lads meaning they are not encouraged as much until they in turn develop, by then they’ve missed a few key years?
Author:  Andy Gilder [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
As long as you divide your junior rugby by age groups you're always going to get some kids who are 10-12 months older (and therefore more physically developed) than others in their age group.

I'm guessing here, but I bet if you looked at the better Under 11 to Under 14 sides in the country they would have a disproportionate amount of kids born between September and March in them.

Those kids are then identified by pro clubs, but once they get into open age levels those advantages are lost and the deficiencies in the game start to stand out.

Not sure what the solution is, maybe moving junior rugby to weight groups rather than age groups so kids are playing against others of the same size?
Author:  Sal Paradise [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
Rugby is different from soccer - it is a game of skill and physical power whereas football is a game of skill and aerobic capacity.

In soccer - you only have to look at Barcelona and the Spanish national side to see skill and speed are more important that size and physical strength. Soccer is in reality a non contact sport where the players have defined roles.

In Rugby we expect our players to be able to defend as well as attack that means being able to stop a 16st forward one on one. Smaller players have a role but its limited. What our coaches need to able to do is ensure the bigger faster kids have the appropriate ball skills

You only have to look at the likes of Greg Inglis to see what can be achieved with the correct coaching.
Author:  Gotcha [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
Sal Paradise wrote:In Rugby we expect our players to be able to defend as well as attack that means being able to stop a 16st forward one on one. Smaller players have a role but its limited. What our coaches need to able to do is ensure the bigger faster kids have the appropriate ball skills

You only have to look at the likes of Greg Inglis to see what can be achieved with the correct coaching.



You could also teach your fleet footed highly skilled individuals how to defend, regardless of their size.

Certainly Burrow had no problem bringing down the big guys over the years, despite his size.
Author:  Him [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
Whilst there is undoubtedly truth in AG's post, personally I put it down to the generally poor standard of coaching at youth & junior (& all levels) in the amateur game. There is far too much of an emphasis on winning next week's game instead of player/skills development and so the "pass it to the big kid" tactic is far too prevalent in junior games. This is exacerbated by aggressive parents who are only bothered about seeing their kids' team win each week or their kid play every week and not if their child is actually improving their skills.
Author:  Sal Paradise [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
Gotcha wrote:You could also teach your fleet footed highly skilled individuals how to defend, regardless of their size.

Certainly Burrow had no problem bringing down the big guys over the years, despite his size.


I don't disagree but the side will always be vulnerable to the offload because the little guys can only tackle round the legs
Author:  Sal Paradise [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
Him wrote:Whilst there is undoubtedly truth in AG's post, personally I put it down to the generally poor standard of coaching at youth & junior (& all levels) in the amateur game. There is far too much of an emphasis on winning next week's game instead of player/skills development and so the "pass it to the big kid" tactic is far too prevalent in junior games. This is exacerbated by aggressive parents who are only bothered about seeing their kids' team win each week or their kid play every week and not if their child is actually improving their skills.


:CLAP:

Could not agree more - having followed my two lads from U11 to open age what you describe is exactly what I used to experience every week. The abuse these kids took was appalling especially from parents of their own side and how they ever found anyone willing to ref the game was beyond me.

This situation gets worse the better the player. The coaches on the whole do their best to develop skills and a love for the game.
Author:  Him [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
Sal Paradise wrote::CLAP:

Could not agree more - having followed my two lads from U11 to open age what you describe is exactly what I used to experience every week. The abuse these kids took was appalling especially from parents of their own side and how they ever found anyone willing to ref the game was beyond me.

This situation gets worse the better the player. The coaches on the whole do their best to develop skills and a love for the game.

Yep, I think there are 2 "schools" of youth coaches at the moment, there are those who do try to develop skills but struggle against parents expectations/abuse and a system which does not encourage skills development and doesn't punish those clubs with an "aggressive atmosphere". Unfortunately too often the people who have the responsibility of punishing clubs are too friendly with the coaches/officials of those clubs and so don't punish them.

Then there is, sadly, a "school" of coach who really isn't bothered about developing players skills and are more bothered about winning next week and basically building their own little empire to appeal to their own ego.


The abuse, foul language & generally intimidating atmosphere from people on the sidelines , and the violence & intimidation on the pitch that appears to be encouraged (or at least not seriously discouraged) at many amateur clubs at all age groups is a big problem for RL, it puts off so many kids from either taking up the game or staying with it.
It's why I switched to playing Union after a while despite being from a thoroughly League family & background, it was a far better atmosphere.
Author:  Saddened! [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
This issue is an enormous discussion point in Australia too. Apparently the white Australian boys are being pushed aside, no matter how talented, by Polynesian boys who can be up to twice their size. It means junior representative sides are packed with Islanders and these are always the first to be pulled up into the professional system, leaving the talented white Australian's who haven't developed physically cast aside.

It's a big issue in every sport. The 'best' players in most school football teams are the big lads who are physically dominant. You see them storming through, relying more and more on their size and power as they go on, often neglecting their skills completely. They reach 18, start playing with men their own size and suddenly find out they aren't all that afterall.
Author:  Les Norton [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youth Development
Him wrote:
The abuse, foul language & generally intimidating atmosphere from people on the sidelines , and the violence & intimidation on the pitch that appears to be encouraged (or at least not seriously discouraged) at many amateur clubs at all age groups is a big problem for RL, it puts off so many kids from either taking up the game or staying with it.
It's why I switched to playing Union after a while despite being from a thoroughly League family & background, it was a far better atmosphere.


This unfortunately is totally correct.
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