Post subject: Re: General Topic | Lack of talent recruit from union
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:13 pm
Old Feller
Player Coach
Joined: Apr 25 2007 Posts: 5526
YCCC has been going longer than any sports club in the region & purports to represent the entire county yet it struggles (except for the T20 games vs Lancs) to get 5 figure crowds to any other one day format games. Therefore, it is no surprise that the Leeds based RU team cannot achieve such crowds. Leeds RU side has had national premiership success when it won the national KO cup a few years back but that did not lead to crowds approaching the size that JC imagined. It seems to me that parochialism is entrenched in the local RU community & that is what has stymied any progress that Caddick & GH hoped would ensue the RU side. Calling the club Yorkshire further alienated potential supporters. Look at the crowds that the Newcastle Falcons get after a prolonged period in the premiership. RL remains a northern "working class" sport. RU is largely a midlands & southern based middle & upper class sport. The north/south divide is as real in rugby as it is in political & economic matters.
Post subject: Re: General Topic | Lack of talent recruit from union
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:54 pm
RHINO-MARK
Club Captain
Joined: Feb 10 2016 Posts: 2356
Juan Cornetto wrote:Perhaps a slight exaggeration on my part but as usual your bias against Union means you miss the point. Leeds have never had a squad remotely capable of competing against the top sides and getting into the lucrative European cup games and so have never attracted the sort of attendances available. Had this happened the crowds would have matched or overtaken the Rhinos. Yorkshire has a large network of Union clubs with large junior sections with lots of parents.
If the right quality of players were playing in a successful top of the table side then many of the Rhinos fans base would watch both teams and Union fans are prepared to travel for the right team. For example Wasps were unable to find a replacement stadium in the capital and relocated to Coventry where they average 14,000 and this is in the back yard of Leicester who average 22,000.
My point about needing a larger shared stadium is that there is an opportunity in the North to stage some of the bigger matches in both League and Union to bring in extra income while reducing costs for each club but both clubs need to be successful and one not a drain on the other.
Anyway this was an aside in my post and not a main point.
I have no bias against RU once again because someone disagrees you "assume" it's because of some imagined agenda. Yer dreaming mate under its most successful run the Leeds RU simply didn't attract the crowds nor did having a side containing Springbok & All Black legends. As for your assumption that many of the Rhinos fanbase would watch a top RU side again yer way off as proven by the lack off big attendences when at their previous best.
I really am rhinoms and haven't stolen his Avatar!
Post subject: Re: General Topic | Lack of talent recruit from union
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:08 pm
Gotcha
International Board Member
Joined: Oct 15 2002 Posts: 17230
I agree with what rhino-mark is saying on the history, it wasn't what the yorkshire public wanted to see and didn't work out. However, I would hazard a guess that if it was repeated now, and although it pains me to say it, I think the Union side in a similar situation to previous would probably prove a success. There is no doubt that the attitude of a lot of dyed in the wool league fans has changed over the last few years towards union. And whilst our own game, and our own club, continues to dwindle as a product, the union game continues to gain.
Post subject: Re: General Topic | Lack of talent recruit from union
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:14 pm
Juan Cornetto
Player Coach
Joined: Aug 09 2008 Posts: 4934 Location: Living the Dream
RHINO-MARK wrote:I have no bias against RU once again because someone disagrees you "assume" it's because of some imagined agenda. Yer dreaming mate under its most successful run the Leeds RU simply didn't attract the crowds nor did having a side containing Springbok & All Black legends. As for your assumption that many of the Rhinos fanbase would watch a top RU side again yer way off as proven by the lack off big attendences when at their previous best.
Still not listening are you? I clearly said if Leeds had recruited a top of the table side getting European cup fixtures and that had this happened they would now be getting the crowds in. Leeds have never had this sort of side full of internationals like the current top four. You are basing you views on Leeds Carnegies somewhat second rate history of ten years ago.
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you! - Winston Churchill
Post subject: Re: General Topic | Lack of talent recruit from union
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:16 pm
Juan Cornetto
Player Coach
Joined: Aug 09 2008 Posts: 4934 Location: Living the Dream
Old Feller wrote:YCCC has been going longer than any sports club in the region & purports to represent the entire county yet it struggles (except for the T20 games vs Lancs) to get 5 figure crowds to any other one day format games. Therefore, it is no surprise that the Leeds based RU team cannot achieve such crowds. Leeds RU side has had national premiership success when it won the national KO cup a few years back but that did not lead to crowds approaching the size that JC imagined. It seems to me that parochialism is entrenched in the local RU community & that is what has stymied any progress that Caddick & GH hoped would ensue the RU side. Calling the club Yorkshire further alienated potential supporters. Look at the crowds that the Newcastle Falcons get after a prolonged period in the premiership. RL remains a northern "working class" sport. RU is largely a midlands & southern based middle & upper class sport. The north/south divide is as real in rugby as it is in political & economic matters.
You cannot compare cricket with rugby. Leeds Union sides have never had the necessary quality that I mentioned which would would need to include plenty of internationals like the current top four. As I said had we had a quality side and competed at the top and in Europe the crowds would have dramatically increased.
Do not underestimate the strength of Union in the north at club level with just over 100 flourishing clubs in Yorkshire where the game has been played since before 1869. They have won the county championship 15 times and been finalists 23 times the first in 1889 and the last in 2008. International touring sides have been visits the county since 1888 but sadly the lack of a suitable venue has seen this decline in recent years. Yorkshire and the north has been one of the strongest regions for producing rugby talent that become internationals. Caddick has invested about £9 million in Union in Leeds which is a little over half of that at either Newcastle and Sale and well below the top teams. So the reasons the crowds have been small is because the product is not good enough not because there are not enough Union fans in the region.
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you! - Winston Churchill
Post subject: Re: General Topic | Lack of talent recruit from union
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:40 pm
RHINO-MARK
Club Captain
Joined: Feb 10 2016 Posts: 2356
Juan Cornetto wrote:Still not listening are you? I clearly said if Leeds had recruited a top of the table side getting European cup fixtures and that had this happened they would now be getting the crowds in. Leeds have never had this sort of side full of internationals like the current top four. You are basing you views on Leeds Carnegies somewhat second rate history of ten years ago.
Go through that Squad that won the Cup there were plenty of internationals including at one point one of the All Black greats in Justin Marshall throw in Balshaw & Sneyman etc if that team wasn't attracting crowds which included a Trophy then i'll stick with what i put history PROVES as such. Coulda woulda shoulda doesn't prove jack.
I really am rhinoms and haven't stolen his Avatar!
Post subject: Re: General Topic | Lack of talent recruit from union
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:08 pm
suffolk rhinos
International Star
Joined: Feb 15 2011 Posts: 228
Old Feller wrote:YCCC has been going longer than any sports club in the region & purports to represent the entire county yet it struggles (except for the T20 games vs Lancs) to get 5 figure crowds to any other one day format games. Therefore, it is no surprise that the Leeds based RU team cannot achieve such crowds. Leeds RU side has had national premiership success when it won the national KO cup a few years back but that did not lead to crowds approaching the size that JC imagined. It seems to me that parochialism is entrenched in the local RU community & that is what has stymied any progress that Caddick & GH hoped would ensue the RU side. Calling the club Yorkshire further alienated potential supporters. Look at the crowds that the Newcastle Falcons get after a prolonged period in the premiership. RL remains a northern "working class" sport. RU is largely a midlands & southern based middle & upper class sport. The north/south divide is as real in rugby as it is in political & economic matters.
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