Well, regardless of any petty dispute over various criteria by which to measure relative success, I think you'll be happy to agree that my point still stands - any degree of adulation that Leeds Rhino's fans hold their club's players in is due to genuine success, rather than any misplaced sycophancy.

Oh, please define 'relative success' and what you regard as the appropriate criteria for measuring it. And whilst you're at it, feel free to explain how it differs from 'actual success' and the appropriate criteria for measuring that... within the context of which club has been the most successful during the SL era of course. I appreciate that the 'actual' amount of silverware won didn't fit your earlier assertion, so perhaps you've now devised a 'relative' formula to do the job instead?


Again, I've not disputed your point on that. I have disputed your incorrect assertion that Leeds are the most successful team during the SL era based on your very own highly questionable criteria and I have done so with reference to genuine silverware actually won. Even if we exclude finishing top of the league and finals appearances which Saints have achieved with more regularity and consistency than Leeds, we are left with the number of trophies won. Saints have won 14 trophies (5 SL titles, 7 CC's, 2 WCC's) compared to Leeds 9 trophies (5 SL titles, 1 CC and 3 WCC's).

Wigan fans are without a doubt the biggest set of bell ends in any sport

Only on a par with anyone who are fans of Manchester Utd. But they are the biggest set of bell ends in Rugby League.

Without a doubt.

that's a pretty big chomp for quarter to four in the morning

Quarter to three-ish - your clock is wrong

Anyhow, Wigan fans are without a doubt the biggest set of bell ends during the entire super league era and any degree of adulation that Leeds Rhinos fans hold their club's fans in is due to their relative success, particularly in finals, rather than any misplaced bitterness...

TBH I'm just grateful our players haven't got what it takes to play union. Otherwise they'd maybe take the 30 pieces of silver on offer, just like that team of gods from over the hills.

They are certainly not the most gracious

I don't know about that, I'm sure they'll be congratulating Widnes later this afternoon.

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St Helens have been the most successful team of the SL Era in terms of trophies won but they've also been the most consistent over the period 1996 to 2011 only once finishing outside the top 4 and that was when they finished 5th in 2004.

Highest average Reg Rd finish : St Helens 2.31 (Leeds 2nd - 3.44, Wigan 3rd - 3.63)
Highest number of Reg Rd wins : St Helens 310 (Wigan 2nd - 287, Leeds 3rd - 286)
Highest number of Reg Rd comp points : St Helens 629 (Wigan 2nd - 586, Leeds 3rd - 583)
Highest Reg Rd scoring : St Helens 13,905 (2nd Bradford - 12,835, 3rd Leeds - 12,708)
Lowest Reg Rd conceded : Wigan 7,832 (2nd St Helens 8,433, 3rd Leeds - 8,745)
Biggest Reg Rd points difference : St Helens 5,472 (2nd Wigan 4,714, 3rd Bradford 3,980)

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On the other hand looking beyond the SL Era and taking account of (arguably) the major recognised trophies on offer over the sports history: the Championship, Challenge Cup, John Player/Regal Trophy, Premiership, Yorkshire/Lancashire Cups, Floodlit Trophy and WCC it's possible Leeds have drawn level with St Helens in 2nd place on that list with 44. Still an age away from Wigan's 70 mind.