Even in the days of Sinfield, Peacock, McGuire, Burrow etc we still finished in 5th place from time to time. It's not like we were always first or second. I loved that it sent some Sky pundits and opposition fans into meltdown when we won it from 5th though. How many times did the likes of Warrington finish in the top 2 and never win the GF?

Finishing spots aren't everything.

I think it’ll be 20 years. Minimum.

They’re representative of a team that’s consistently competing. The team that won it from 5th had basically finished in the top 2 for nearly a decade prior.

Don’t know how people can quote finishing 5th in relation to the current mob. They have no legacy of being a top team. We need to get back to being consistent and finishing in the top 2 if we want to ever win a grand final again.

That won’t happen anytime soon because we’re crap all round.

St Helens after the Cunningham debacle fired him in 2017 ,took approximately 18 months to regroup and then proceeded to win 4 grand finals.

We lost our way before the end of the Goldens (signings like Ferres that never worked out, and worse); then we managed to find our way even less.

It’s really hard to predict where young players will end up, so many of our academy products have looked okay and then gone on to have sub-stellar careers at lower SL and champ clubs.

We really need a couple of future England players to develop from the youth system.

For balance, Saints managed one title between 2006 and 2019, and that came against 12 man Wigan. They remained consistent, but still, it's a long time between drinks. Wigan won the GF in 98 and didn't win another till 2010. In the meantime we were having a rather spectacular trot. We'll get there I'm sure, but as they both found out, nobody has a divine right to success.

How many did they win in the previous 10-12 years?

It’s almost as if sport is cyclical or something.

One of the big problems for me is that the club, and the game in general, needs to attract new fans.
Not us lot. The next generation.
I don't think the spectacle is currently good enough.
And it certainly isn't at Leeds.
We'll all be too old to go soon, where's the next 15,000 coming from?

Speak for yourself old chap, I plan to be good for another 30 years yet. In seriousness in the seats around me there are loads of young kids - boys and girls. They aren't jaded by the weight of expectation and just enjoy the thrill of live sport. Crowds are double what they were when I started going in the late 70's. The ladies team will eventually bare fruit in terms of attracting new fans and the mens fortunes will turn around again. Headingley is a magic place to go and watch sport, and even in the lean times that hasn't changed for me. People will come.

There is plenty of youth on the South Stand terrace. And plenty of them seem to travel away well. I don't think we have a problem with an increasing age of the fanbase.

As a club we won't be dire forever, either. We will get a decent squad and couch together one day, and the casual fans will return when the wins come.