Sethster I was at the game live and I'm just not accepting that we were "miles off" in the first half.

We were miles off in the second half no debate.

There were good moments in the first half and some decent play until our wheels, yet again, fell off. I haven't watched it back on telly yet but my impressions were that we had several (usual) players having a real dig, but we crumbled under pressure and came up with way too many errors again overall.

I'm not straw clutching. I'm rational.

I think you'll be on your own in thinking we were anywhere close in the first half that were were only 6 points down was not a reflection of the balance of play and all the stats were well in their favour. I nearly came on here at half time to say I think we'll get hammered in the second half because of how the first half went.

What was it about the errors made, missed tackles, lack of meters gained, meters conceded and territory that lead you to feel we did ok in that first half?

On the scoreboard, we weren’t miles off at half time, but the energy burning mistakes and lack of territory was already obvious and would hurt us badly in the second half. We had 6 ptb in their 20 for the whole game, that’s not enough for just one half so the foundations of the defeat were already there to see.

I think the majority of the stats worsened considerably in the second half mate, I don't think we have a half-by-half analysis?

We got drubbed what about 30-0 in 40 mins which indicates our stats were a shocker.

We had some really good passages of play (I think Handley butchered a try off the Croft kick TBH), and we did have some good ball in the first half and competed when we were fresh. We fell off alarmingly and then couldn't handle Saints when they smelled blood and went after us.

If I'm alone I'll take it, but I don't think we were miles off in the first half - even if the scoreboard flattered us a little. They only actually scored directly off two crappy mistakes we made, they didn't really bust our D much in the first half IMO.

I just thought with (Batchelor?) and Lomax off we might be able to apply some pressure, but I was sadly wrong. I was so angry with that turgid first 10 mins after half time, but once we lost the game the last 2-3 tries I was just "meh". We got what we deserved again.

Thing is I'm not sure even with Holroyd, Mom and Fus back we win that game. I do think it would have been much tighter though. We have quantity in the squad but the quality isn't there yet.

Sadly Jim I’m pretty certain that With Holroyd , mom and Fusitua back we would still have lost by plenty because we would have still played almost the entire game at the wrong end of the pitch.

We will likely lose the territory battle V Cas but may win if we make far fewer errors because Cas are nowhere near as good as Saints.

The stats were shown on sky at half time and confirmed everything my eyes told me.

I see you've been hoodwinked by the magicians trick of the eye/sleight of hand that is a rhinos early cross field kick.

I agree I said to my mate can't believe we are only 6 behind.We both agreed unless we scored first then it could well be a landslide.

Yeah as we all keep saying, RL is a simple game at heart and if you lose possession/position metrics you're very likely to lose the game on the scoreboard. I'm not a huge Wilkin fan but one thing he said which I totally agreed with, was around us playing the game way, way too tough. We're putting so much pressure on ourselves it's like running through brick walls constantly.

Our lack of field position IMO is multi-factoral: i.e. we lack go-forward in the tackle which is partly a player issue, and partly systemic due to our poor ruck performance and lack of guile in attack. I also don't think the tactic of using three very light backs out of yardage works at all - they are consistently getting smashed which robs us of any momentum.

Also our general kicking from deep is poor - again against Saints we are hoofing the ball down a winger or FBs throat, they're not often even having to move far to collect the ball.

Also errors. I think this is the biggest single problem as I've said before. And this is again why I'm pointing the finger a bit at the players who are making these mistakes, sometimes consistently. Sides like Saints very rarely make these mistakes and we won't compete while we are. For me this is a quality of player issue: coaches do not coach players to drop the ball or miss a tackle. The odd mistake happens of course but for us it's systemic.

Hey I like that, it works a treat if you can execute it - but of course it isn't a substitute for doing the basics well and earning field position. It should be the icing on the cake rather than the cake...