Joined: Mar 04 2002 Posts: 4462 Location: Dublin's fair city
SmokeyTA wrote: You can limit investment you can limit growth you can encourage stagnation and that's what the SC does.
Do you think that we would have the new stadia that we have without the salary cap. More spending on salaries would mean less spending on other areas, including infrastructure. If we hadn't had that investment, it is likely that customers would have drifted assay from the tumbledown stadia that SL clubs had.
Hail Stewie Griffin wrote: All dumbies those Irish folk
Because it hasn't happened yet and therefore won't ever? Despite the an increased chance of beating anyone put in front of you? Sorry mate, you're going to need to explain that.
a focus on performing in the big games removes focus from performing in the little ones. Ergo big side challenging from trophies is worse than they otherwise would be but better in the big games than they otherwise would be, so whilst a smaller side might be more likely to beat them in a league game they aren't any more likely to beat them in the big games. That's why we continue to see less successful clubs challenge during the season but go to prices come play off time.
Quote:Any ambitions it has to be the premier RL competition in the world are an utter delusion and always have been. Any hopes the A-League has of over taking the Premier League are a delusion, and always will be - and they have no sporting cultural hegemony to contend with. People do not descend into an atavistic rage over what they might regard as an improper use of the word 'football' there because there are no such thoughts there and everyone is okay with it. The English have a nervous breakdown when they discover they're pretty much the only people in the world to butter their bread for sandwiches. Changing their sporting habits on any kind of conceivable timeline is an impossible task.
When I see the provincial towns of Leeds and Wigan listed on the inside covers of internationally published books; when I see them as the home bases of major media organisations that have the billions of dollars spare to wage war over TV rights for multiple sports; when I see them as places from which culture regularly flows out from, and not in to, then I will believe these to be worthy and achievable goals but they just aren't. We are on the receiving end of the cultural hegemony, and not just sporting in kind but of all natures. We are absolutely not the source of it.
We really need to ground ourselves on the world as it is and not the best ambitions of our wildest flights of fancy. Which is not to say that we need to limit our ambitions. Our ambitions should be total and complete world domination, and all the spoils of whatever steps we can take down that road.
That means persistent high quality story telling that makes people sit up and take notice. There is always scope in my view for constant review over the nature of the cap. Our goals can only be achieved by working together to fight the true hegemony, and not introduce shore up yet more within the confines of our own sport.
Brothers and sisters! Who is with me?
In my lifetime club rl was comfortably bigger than club RU. In my lifetime RU has made massive in roads in many different countries. In my lifetime NFL in this country has gone from niche interest to selling out massive stadiums numerous times a year. Stagnation isn't grounding ourself in the world as it is. It's settling for what's easy.
We cannot sell ourselves as high quality story telling and expect people to sit up and take notice when our very best quality is leaving to tell those stories elsewhere.
vbfg wrote:Of course, because narrative.
Because it hasn't happened yet and therefore won't ever? Despite the an increased chance of beating anyone put in front of you? Sorry mate, you're going to need to explain that.
a focus on performing in the big games removes focus from performing in the little ones. Ergo big side challenging from trophies is worse than they otherwise would be but better in the big games than they otherwise would be, so whilst a smaller side might be more likely to beat them in a league game they aren't any more likely to beat them in the big games. That's why we continue to see less successful clubs challenge during the season but go to prices come play off time.
Quote:Any ambitions it has to be the premier RL competition in the world are an utter delusion and always have been. Any hopes the A-League has of over taking the Premier League are a delusion, and always will be - and they have no sporting cultural hegemony to contend with. People do not descend into an atavistic rage over what they might regard as an improper use of the word 'football' there because there are no such thoughts there and everyone is okay with it. The English have a nervous breakdown when they discover they're pretty much the only people in the world to butter their bread for sandwiches. Changing their sporting habits on any kind of conceivable timeline is an impossible task.
When I see the provincial towns of Leeds and Wigan listed on the inside covers of internationally published books; when I see them as the home bases of major media organisations that have the billions of dollars spare to wage war over TV rights for multiple sports; when I see them as places from which culture regularly flows out from, and not in to, then I will believe these to be worthy and achievable goals but they just aren't. We are on the receiving end of the cultural hegemony, and not just sporting in kind but of all natures. We are absolutely not the source of it.
We really need to ground ourselves on the world as it is and not the best ambitions of our wildest flights of fancy. Which is not to say that we need to limit our ambitions. Our ambitions should be total and complete world domination, and all the spoils of whatever steps we can take down that road.
That means persistent high quality story telling that makes people sit up and take notice. There is always scope in my view for constant review over the nature of the cap. Our goals can only be achieved by working together to fight the true hegemony, and not introduce shore up yet more within the confines of our own sport.
Brothers and sisters! Who is with me?
In my lifetime club rl was comfortably bigger than club RU. In my lifetime RU has made massive in roads in many different countries. In my lifetime NFL in this country has gone from niche interest to selling out massive stadiums numerous times a year. Stagnation isn't grounding ourself in the world as it is. It's settling for what's easy.
We cannot sell ourselves as high quality story telling and expect people to sit up and take notice when our very best quality is leaving to tell those stories elsewhere.
//www.pngnrlbid.com
bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.
vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.
finglas wrote:Do you think that we would have the new stadia that we have without the salary cap. More spending on salaries would mean less spending on other areas, including infrastructure. If we hadn't had that investment, it is likely that customers would have drifted assay from the tumbledown stadia that SL clubs had.
Yes. I don't believe the differential between what we are spending and what we would spend is close to paying for a new stadium.
And again spending on players does not equal less spending elsewhere.
//www.pngnrlbid.com
bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.
vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 28186 Location: A world of my own ...
SmokeyTA wrote:And again spending on players does not equal less spending elsewhere.
It does when you only have a limited pot of cash to spend.
You appear to be operating in some sort of "Field of Dreams" scenario, whereby if we pay players more the standard will improve and clubs will suddenly be turning punters and potential commercial partners away at the gate. For many reasons, including some of those stated by vbfg, that simply isn't going to happen quickly enough for clubs to sustain that increased spending.
The overwhelming majority of RL clubs are operating on a very tight budget. The choice will literally be between paying the promising young half-back you have an extra £20k or refurbishing the toilets. If you don't recognise that as a reality, have a think back to places like Watersheddings, Derwent Park or even the old version of Craven Park in Hull. Those stadia weren't cr*pholes because the people running them couldn't be bothered, they were in a state of disrepair because the playing budget took first call on the finances.
if you spend more on players, it absolutely does equal less spending elsewhere - at least in the real world of professional RL.
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
finglas wrote:Do you think that we would have the new stadia that we have without the salary cap. More spending on salaries would mean less spending on other areas, including infrastructure. If we hadn't had that investment, it is likely that customers would have drifted assay from the tumbledown stadia that SL clubs had.
Doncaster, Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone and Newcastle to name a few, are all playing in decent stadiums despite playing in the lower leagues. This is not a valid excuse to keep reducing players wages.
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 28186 Location: A world of my own ...
Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:Doncaster, Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone and Newcastle to name a few, are all playing in decent stadiums despite playing in the lower leagues. This is not a valid excuse to keep reducing players wages.
Of those, only Featherstone own the stadium they play in. The rest are tenants.
It's a bit like me moving into Jay-Z's mansion then everyone congratulating me on building it.
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
Joined: Dec 09 2001 Posts: 7594 Location: The People's Republic of Goatistan
The new stadia that we have are largely the result of the "benevolence" of supermarkets who wanted either land or good will, odd relationships with local telecoms companies or the shell an other associated companies of club owners. Very little on that score to do with the cap, and I suspect it is still largely true that money going in to those clubs is going in to pockets rather than bricks and mortar of yesteryear or the concrete and plasticine of today.
(You may recall that Bradford once moved out of Odsal for its redevelopment. Everything was signed and sealed. There was going to be both a Tesco and modern stadium on that site. It took one Stephen Byers to step in to stop this "out of town development", in an area that was then the recipient of an inner city development grant, to stop it from happening. I put more blame on this one act for what happened to Bradford than I do on the undoubted year on year mismanagement of where to spend money that occurred under previous regimes. Still, at least Bradford city centre has never been known as a desolate wasteland at any point since that time. Tesco later built a huge superstore on Great Horton Road instead. Net result to the community: a snarled up ring road.)
When my club didn't exist it was still bigger than yours
Joined: Aug 09 2008 Posts: 4934 Location: Living the Dream
Andy Gilder wrote:It does when you only have a limited pot of cash to spend.
You appear to be operating in some sort of "Field of Dreams" scenario, whereby if we pay players more the standard will improve and clubs will suddenly be turning punters and potential commercial partners away at the gate. For many reasons, including some of those stated by vbfg, that simply isn't going to happen quickly enough for clubs to sustain that increased spending.
The overwhelming majority of RL clubs are operating on a very tight budget. The choice will literally be between paying the promising young half-back you have an extra £20k or refurbishing the toilets. If you don't recognise that as a reality, have a think back to places like Watersheddings, Derwent Park or even the old version of Craven Park in Hull. Those stadia weren't cr*pholes because the people running them couldn't be bothered, they were in a state of disrepair because the playing budget took first call on the finances.
if you spend more on players, it absolutely does equal less spending elsewhere - at least in the real world of professional RL.
Indeed. But I would suggest this is not the case at Leeds which is the issue.
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you! - Winston Churchill
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