ArthurClues wrote:In fairness (and I think his time is up) that's his record over the last season and a half. First year he was 14 wins out 19 and a GF.
Yes, I was quoting a Lot Pod stat on his record after reaching the GF. However, this in my view makes it worse. We had every expectation of kicking on and building on that initial success. Yes, there'd be bumps in the road, but our record is simply awful.
batleyrhino wrote:The more I think about this the more I think we need to change now. I’d ask Shaun Wane if he would take the job for the rest of this year, but not longer, and then would look to bring in either Brad Arthur or Peter Wallace. Wane would clear out the rank culture, and could advise on players to keep or replace such that Arthur or Wallace would then be able to start with a clean slate.
The culture on the sporting side stinks and we nee a strong hand to clean that up first.
I can't see what Wane would get out of this other than a pay cheque .Why would the players respond if they know he's only short term.If there was to be an in coming coach next season I'm sure they would want to make the decisions on who stays once they have arrived.Plus I don't think we have that many off contract which as we know makes it harder to move players on.For mine the new coach has to come in now or we stick with Smith this season then bring in the new guy.
I'm not a pheasant plucker, i'm a pheasant pluckers son and i'm only plucking pheasants till the pheasant plucker comes.
YosemiteSam wrote:Yes, I was quoting a Lot Pod stat on his record after reaching the GF. However, this in my view makes it worse. We had every expectation of kicking on and building on that initial success. Yes, there'd be bumps in the road, but our record is simply awful.
Agreed. In some ways the stats don't bother me. It's the actual performances that make me want to scream like an extra in a cheap horror movie. Just the same excruciating script every week. Very sad, when you consider the hope that the last six months of 22 engendered.
Agree entirely with that Arthur. Its the performances. Even the early wins this year came about through miracle plays which covered up some basic flaws.
That's why I jumped off the Rohan bandwagon a while ago. We were 'only' a couple of points off the top but clearly going backwards, and I reckon every side in the comp looks forward to playing us. We gift position and possession and have no punch up front or in attacking positions.That gives every other team a chance against us. Its the same issues every week and nothing changes except the players seem to be losing belief. Again.
Just on the players with coaches. They have always been fickle. You occasionally see them stand up for coaches at risk to themselves, but it's generally only very senior players who can or will take full responsibility for performances. Most of the time they'll back the coach to the point where blame starts being pointed at them, and then they let the coach fry. Why admit to playing badly when you can blame the coach? Not sure if we've quite reached that point, but we can't be far off. Once that happens its game over for the coach.
I agree that we need a reset and Rohan and most of the back up coaches need to go as our performance levels over the last 18 months have fallen well below whats acceptable for a club of Leeds size. Smith is getting all the stick but many players are underperforming and not standing up! In the glory days we had multiple leaders in the team now they are sadly lacking. Currently the only players I see any consistency and leadership from are Handley and Martyn. We don't look bothered by defeats. Back in the day Sinfield Peacock and Maguire dictated the culture to the rest of the squad and if you were not willing to stand up you wouldn't last long!
Joined: Aug 09 2011 Posts: 1834 Location: Deepest North Yorkshire Woodland
Looks like all the foroum are in general agreement that Smith has failed. The main talking point should be how much damage has Smith done, I can think of 3 players that should be out of the door immediately. Obviously that will be difficult because of contractual agreements. Potentially Smith has set us back at least 2 seasons. No point in immediately sacking him , let him continue to the end of the season. That give us ample time to find a new coach.
The decision on a new coach depends on who's available and when they might want to come over, but leaving a 'dead coach walking' in place if a decision has been made to get rid will simply make things worse. If its reached that point you have to get them out of the club, as much for their own benefit as the team. The players would have zero respect for a coach in that position, and they'd still get the blame for every poor performance, with no upside.
Far better put a caretaker in, but if it is a caretaker they have to know they will not get the gig long term. No Agar-style fudging and ending up with someone out of their depth because they win a game or two. It would put the assistants in the shop window for future head coach roles, and also show us all whether some of our squad are as bad as they currently look or are playing poorly in a messed up team.
While we as fans might think its all over I'm not sure GH has reached that point yet. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see no announcement in the near future, and we just bumble onwards, because the club bet a lot on Smith being the right man. They followed up a poor season with splashing the cash, which showed they had faith at the start of this season. I'm sure faith is wearing thin, but its not just Smith's ego at stake here....
Once were Loiners wrote:The decision on a new coach depends on who's available and when they might want to come over, but leaving a 'dead coach walking' in place if a decision has been made to get rid will simply make things worse. If its reached that point you have to get them out of the club, as much for their own benefit as the team. The players would have zero respect for a coach in that position, and they'd still get the blame for every poor performance, with no upside.
Far better put a caretaker in, but if it is a caretaker they have to know they will not get the gig long term. No Agar-style fudging and ending up with someone out of their depth because they win a game or two. It would put the assistants in the shop window for future head coach roles, and also show us all whether some of our squad are as bad as they currently look or are playing poorly in a messed up team.
While we as fans might think it’s all over I'm not sure GH has reached that point yet. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see no announcement in the near future, and we just bumble onwards, because the club bet a lot on Smith being the right man. They followed up a poor season with splashing the cash, which showed they had faith at the start of this season. I'm sure faith is wearing thin, but it’s not just Smith's ego at stake here....
Joined: Aug 09 2011 Posts: 1834 Location: Deepest North Yorkshire Woodland
Once were Loiners wrote:The decision on a new coach depends on who's available and when they might want to come over, but leaving a 'dead coach walking' in place if a decision has been made to get rid will simply make things worse. If its reached that point you have to get them out of the club, as much for their own benefit as the team. The players would have zero respect for a coach in that position, and they'd still get the blame for every poor performance, with no upside.
Far better put a caretaker in, but if it is a caretaker they have to know they will not get the gig long term. No Agar-style fudging and ending up with someone out of their depth because they win a game or two. It would put the assistants in the shop window for future head coach roles, and also show us all whether some of our squad are as bad as they currently look or are playing poorly in a messed up team.
While we as fans might think its all over I'm not sure GH has reached that point yet. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see no announcement in the near future, and we just bumble onwards, because the club bet a lot on Smith being the right man. They followed up a poor season with splashing the cash, which showed they had faith at the start of this season. I'm sure faith is wearing thin, but its not just Smith's ego at stake here....
Agree with most of that, especially the ego comment. Smith failure also reflects on the senior management that appointed him, which in reflection was a big gamble. Think Smiths main fault is signing average to poor players and thinking he can transform them into top class players. Finally the players have to accept some responsibility for this mess. Saw the first half of the Catalan Warrington game, Warrington defence absolutely rock solid bags of courage and commitment. Contrast that with our performance at saints especially Newmans attitude. Probably highlights the difference between Burgess and Smith.
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