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cod'ead wrote:
Next stops: Spain, Portugal and Italy. Unfortunately it looks like we in the UK will just continue to bumble along with our "mustn't grumble" attitude.

Quote:Είμαι ΣΥΡΙΖΑ

#IamSYRIZA

Mugwump wrote:Precisely WHAT do you think we should do? Leaving aside the obvious truism that politicians are corrupt and generally favour business elites - has it ever crossed your mind that the reason the likes of Cameron, Blair, Brown etc. consistently oppose any policies which hurt the interests of trans-national capital is because they fear the consequent retribution?

We're on the cusp of full integration to a globalised economy. The time to man the battlements and protect socialism was FORTY YEARS AGO when these plans were first drawn up. To take a political stand post GATT, WTO and NAFTA with only TPP left to go is like shutting the barn door after the horse bolted, found a partner, had kids and died.

LOL.

cod'ead wrote:If nothing else, I would hope that seeing what happened in Scotland and to a greater extent in Greece, might just mobilise younger, disaffected voters to exercise their democratic right and use the ballot.

Labour has all too enthusiastically embraced the centrist homogeny of modern politics, where only peripherals differentiate betwen the two major parties. What were previously Labour's socialist principles now seem to have been taken on by the Greens and I'm sure they'll attract a large proportion of the <30 vote. Many disaffected Labour voters will also look to vote Green on May 7th, whether that will have an effect on Labour policies post-May 7th is debatable. I rather think they'll revert to Blairism as a "solution".

A globalised economy does not necessarily mean an economy working for the benefit of the few

WIZEB wrote:I'd have voted Demis Roussos in as Prime Minister.
Long time since I flogged him a load of silk for his kaftans.

Mugwump wrote:You don't seem to understand that it DOESN'T MATTER who you vote for. Let's say a miracle happens and somehow the Green party gains significant influence. Even power. Are you so naive to think that they can simply reverse the policies of previous Tory and Labour governments and the rest of the world will simply do nothing?

Again, I draw your attention to what happened in Yugoslavia. Contrary to popular history and the press - the war in Yugoslavia started because it refused to follow the economic policies of the EU and US. Only later when its economy was brought to its knees and people began to starve did ethnic rivalry (cruelly stoked by foreign NGOs) explode into bloody mayhem.

Don't be so foolish to think something similar couldn't happen here.

Author:	cod'ead [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:49 am ]
Post subject:	Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
Greece has overwhelmingly thrown its support behind Syriza and true to form the establishment has wasted absolutely no time predicting doom and destruction for the country, the Eurozone and potentially the EU as currently configured. The austerity programme forced upon the Greek citizens has had little to no effect on the oligarchs and political & commercial elite. They still continue to avoid paying taxes and revel in the corruption that has hardly been dented. Instead it is the lower to middle classes but more especially the young who have had the greatest burden. When you perceive you have nothing left to lose, then a radical "solution" becomes more attractive. The neo-cons and neo-liberals who advocate permanent austerity are the only ones who would ever gain. By refusing to continue to follow the austerity programme, at least Greece may force those holding the purse strings to look to alternatives to austerity. Hopefully Syriza can start to prise financial considerations from those who have been reluctant to contribute for so long. People who have enjoyed the patronage of various regimes from way back in the Metaxas days, may now find that they too must contribute in order to retain their financial advantages. Next stops: Spain, Portugal and Italy. Unfortunately it looks like we in the UK will just continue to bumble along with our "mustn't grumble" attitude. Είμαι ΣΥΡΙΖΑ #IamSYRIZA

Author:	Derwent [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
I'm sure they'll have a lovely few months of non-austerity, until the money runs out and nobody is prepared to lend them any more.....

Author:	WIZEB [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
I'd have voted Demis Roussos in as Prime Minister. Long time since I flogged him a load of silk for his kaftans.

Author:	Mugwump [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
The Greeks can vote for whatever political system they like. Hell - I agree with them in principle. But they are no longer an imperial power and so they'll reap the consequences of opposing the mob boss. In approximately 12 months Greece will have been violently destabilised. The Greek economy will crash because they will no longer be able to draw credit. NGOs similar to those operating in the Ukraine will funnel foreign money to ultra-right wing fascists and their goons will be roaming the streets. Political dissidents will begin "disappearing" in the early hours of the morning. Senior politicians will likely be assassinated by the same GLADIO sleepers which turned Italy into a bloodbath during the 70s and 80s resulting in the death of Aldo Moro. You'd think the Greeks would have paid attention to what happened to Yugoslavia - another country which figured it could go it alone...

Author:	Mugwump [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
cod'ead wrote: Next stops: Spain, Portugal and Italy. Unfortunately it looks like we in the UK will just continue to bumble along with our "mustn't grumble" attitude. Precisely WHAT do you think we should do? Leaving aside the obvious truism that politicians are corrupt and generally favour business elites - has it ever crossed your mind that the reason the likes of Cameron, Blair, Brown etc. consistently oppose any policies which hurt the interests of trans-national capital is because they fear the consequent retribution? We're on the cusp of full integration to a globalised economy. The time to man the battlements and protect socialism was FORTY YEARS AGO when these plans were first drawn up. To take a political stand post GATT, WTO and NAFTA with only TPP left to go is like shutting the barn door after the horse bolted, found a partner, had kids and died. Quote:Είμαι ΣΥΡΙΖΑ #IamSYRIZA LOL.

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Author:	cod'ead [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
Mugwump wrote:Precisely WHAT do you think we should do? Leaving aside the obvious truism that politicians are corrupt and generally favour business elites - has it ever crossed your mind that the reason the likes of Cameron, Blair, Brown etc. consistently oppose any policies which hurt the interests of trans-national capital is because they fear the consequent retribution? We're on the cusp of full integration to a globalised economy. The time to man the battlements and protect socialism was FORTY YEARS AGO when these plans were first drawn up. To take a political stand post GATT, WTO and NAFTA with only TPP left to go is like shutting the barn door after the horse bolted, found a partner, had kids and died. LOL. If nothing else, I would hope that seeing what happened in Scotland and to a greater extent in Greece, might just mobilise younger, disaffected voters to exercise their democratic right and use the ballot. Labour has all too enthusiastically embraced the centrist homogeny of modern politics, where only peripherals differentiate betwen the two major parties. What were previously Labour's socialist principles now seem to have been taken on by the Greens and I'm sure they'll attract a large proportion of the <30 vote. Many disaffected Labour voters will also look to vote Green on May 7th, whether that will have an effect on Labour policies post-May 7th is debatable. I rather think they'll revert to Blairism as a "solution". A globalised economy does not necessarily mean an economy working for the benefit of the few

Author:	Mugwump [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
cod'ead wrote:If nothing else, I would hope that seeing what happened in Scotland and to a greater extent in Greece, might just mobilise younger, disaffected voters to exercise their democratic right and use the ballot. Labour has all too enthusiastically embraced the centrist homogeny of modern politics, where only peripherals differentiate betwen the two major parties. What were previously Labour's socialist principles now seem to have been taken on by the Greens and I'm sure they'll attract a large proportion of the <30 vote. Many disaffected Labour voters will also look to vote Green on May 7th, whether that will have an effect on Labour policies post-May 7th is debatable. I rather think they'll revert to Blairism as a "solution". A globalised economy does not necessarily mean an economy working for the benefit of the few You don't seem to understand that it DOESN'T MATTER who you vote for. Let's say a miracle happens and somehow the Green party gains significant influence. Even power. Are you so naive to think that they can simply reverse the policies of previous Tory and Labour governments and the rest of the world will simply do nothing? Again, I draw your attention to what happened in Yugoslavia. Contrary to popular history and the press - the war in Yugoslavia started because it refused to follow the economic policies of the EU and US. Only later when its economy was brought to its knees and people began to starve did ethnic rivalry (cruelly stoked by foreign NGOs) explode into bloody mayhem. Don't be so foolish to think something similar couldn't happen here.

Author:	JerryChicken [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
WIZEB wrote:I'd have voted Demis Roussos in as Prime Minister. Long time since I flogged him a load of silk for his kaftans. Damn, you're just too late. That always happens to me too.

Author:	cod'ead [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
Mugwump wrote:You don't seem to understand that it DOESN'T MATTER who you vote for. Let's say a miracle happens and somehow the Green party gains significant influence. Even power. Are you so naive to think that they can simply reverse the policies of previous Tory and Labour governments and the rest of the world will simply do nothing? Again, I draw your attention to what happened in Yugoslavia. Contrary to popular history and the press - the war in Yugoslavia started because it refused to follow the economic policies of the EU and US. Only later when its economy was brought to its knees and people began to starve did ethnic rivalry (cruelly stoked by foreign NGOs) explode into bloody mayhem. Don't be so foolish to think something similar couldn't happen here. Was that not the scenario at the start of the 20th Century and during the 1920s & 30s? It may have taken major conflict to bring about something of a new order but something did change post-WW2. A sense of social responsibility prevailed, money was printed to fund infrastructure improvements and the world bumped along pretty well until Reagan & Thatcher decided on a major shrinking of the state and wholsesale sell-offs of state assets, at bargain-basement prices to private enterprise.

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