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 Post subject: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:43 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:40 pm 
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IMO there are too many questions the article doesn't answer:
What happens when the 'drunk' has actually been spiked, or has a mental issue? Does the private company have access to people's medical records as the NHS do, in case they are allergic to something, need to take something etc? How do you force someone to pay £400? What if they don't have that much money? Should we trust private companies to detain people? What happens when someone realises they're going to be fined £400 and gets aggressive? Will these private companies make a big profit off this and be able to attract the best doctors and nurses to work for them instead of working for the NHS?






Frank Zappa wrote:Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

The_Enforcer wrote:Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.

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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:47 pm 
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And if people refuse to pay do they have to stay there indefinitely?

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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Grimmy wrote:IMO there are too many questions the article doesn't answer:
What happens when the 'drunk' has actually been spiked, or has a mental issue? Does the private company have access to people's medical records as the NHS do, in case they are allergic to something, need to take something etc? How do you force someone to pay £400? What if they don't have that much money? Should we trust private companies to detain people? What happens when someone realises they're going to be fined £400 and gets aggressive? Will these private companies make a big profit off this and be able to attract the best doctors and nurses to work for them instead of working for the NHS?


I agree with all of that, and in particular whether the individual has himself to blame or if they have had their drink spiked. It's a rare occurrence in my experience (thankfully) but it does happen, because believe it or not, not everyone who goes for a night out in town drink in excess. I think there is an unfair generalisation here, in that respect.

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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:51 pm 
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It begs the question how they will deal with the alcoholics that are living rough in many town centres. They could be locked up every night, which they might welcome, but would never be able to pay the £400.

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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Also, will they subsidise places that don't have big problems with drunks? Or will they just have the current fines? Will these places run 24/7?






Frank Zappa wrote:Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

The_Enforcer wrote:Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.

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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:56 pm 
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And if people refuse to pay do they have to stay there indefinitely?

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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:57 pm 
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From the article linked to above...

Quote:Adrian Lee, the chief constable of Northamptonshire and the Association of Chief Police Officers’ lead on tackling alcohol problems, said: “I do not see why the police service or the health service should pick up the duty of care for someone who has chosen to go out and get so drunk that they cannot look after themselves.


To which I would reply, "Because thats your f##kin job you idiot".

Whether they like it or not being drunk and disorderly is a public order offence and unless the chief constable is happy to devolve some of his police powers to private company's then he has to roll his sleeves up and get on with the job he is paid to do, if he doesn't like it then "there is a queue of people waiting to take your place" blah, blah, blah.

Whether or not the police and health providers can claim something back from the drunk on the proviso that they can prove that getting drunk was the drunkards sole aim at the start of the night is another thing, presumably they already know that extracting a sum of money from a sobered up person might be a tad difficult and they'd rather G4S have a go at doing that instead while all of the rozzers on duty in town centres on Friday and Saturday nights can sit at home watching Simply Come Dancing and have their wives moan at them because theres no overtime this month.

It also raises another issue about the manufacturers and retailers of the alcohol in the first place who have some culpability, particularly the retailers and especially the licensees who are breaking the terms of their alcohol licence by serving someone who is clearly already intoxicated, whether or not they were intoxicated when they left home - as soon as you served them in your premises you broke the law and when you happily serve people to unconsciousness you are directly causing the problem that apparently costs so much to clean up afterwards.

In the city I live in there have been several initiatives to levy a duty on alcohol retailers in the city centre to pay for the extra policing that they cause, which is always shouted down with howls of anguish from bar owners all pleading poverty and threatening that they'll leave the area if they have to pay for clearing up the detritus of their retailing skills.

And yet we always come back to a point I raise time and again when this subject comes up - stop the emphasised sales of spirits and shots and cleverly marketed high strength small volume drinks and you will fix the problem of unconscious drunks almost overnight and once again I'll mention that when I was in my drinking youth I often got drunk on beer, but never enough to not be able to control my actions or fall unconcious and that was simply because it is impossible to drink pints of beer in a high enough volume to become unconcious before you start throwing up and being generally unwell and when I was in my drinking youth spirits and cocktails were for old men and women.

Excuse me while I go have a drink to calm down now.






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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:01 pm 
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One way would be for pubs and bars to stop selling alcohol in their establishments when that person is clearaly drunk. Or do they not know that it it illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk ?






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 Post subject: Re: How to deal with drunks?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Dead Man Walking wrote:One way would be for pubs and bars to stop selling alcohol in their establishments when that person is clearaly drunk. Or do they not know that it it illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk ?


It's also illegal to buy (or attempt to buy) alcohol if you are intoxicated, how many prosecutions have you seen for that offense?






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