Joined: Dec 09 2003 Posts: 1422 Location: Kingston upon Hull(FC)
wotsupcas wrote:Of course they have. They are using brinkmanship.We have to hold our nerve like they've been doing. That is until they gave us another deadline when push came to shove. The Germans will not allow no deal they have too much to lose. What did you expect them to do give in after 24 hours of Boris?
Not this same old rubbish please. It is 27 countries to 1 they are not going to cave in.
Whoever stands by a just cause and fights for the freedom and liberation of his land from the invaders, the settlers and the colonialists, cannot possibly be called terrorist."
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17138 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
wotsupcas wrote: The Germans will not allow no deal they have too much to lose.
Like what?
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12637 Location: Leicestershire.
wotsupcas wrote:Of course they have. They are using brinkmanship.We have to hold our nerve like they've been doing. That is until they gave us another deadline when push came to shove. The Germans will not allow no deal they have too much to lose. What did you expect them to do give in after 24 hours of Boris?
But they’ve also got a massive amount to lose by capitulating and offering the sort of deal that might be acceptable to the ERG hardliners.
The withdrawal agreement is pretty much exactly in line with sensible expectations based on May’s red lines and there is no sign of BJ dropping those. If countries leaving are allowed to cherry pick then they’ll all leave and then there’d be no EU.
The Irish border problem could be kicked down the road, i suppose. But the current backstop is just one of three unpopular choices. Ultimately there has to be a customs union, or we have to abandon the Good Friday agreement and have a border in Ireland, or we have to have different rules in NI and GB. Whichever way we choose to jump, we might as well do it now as later. I understand wanting to leave options on the table, but when they’re all so unpalatable i’m not sure it is hugely valuable.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
27 percent of all Germans car exports are to the UK. And as us ,Germany and France are the only nett contributors to the EU coffers the small matter of 39 billion quid.
JACK DETH wrote:Not this same old rubbish please. It is 27 countries to 1 they are not going to cave in.
Well we'll see whose right in the fullness of time. And if you don't think Germany has a bigger say than say , Portugal I think you're being naive in the extreme
Joined: Dec 09 2003 Posts: 1422 Location: Kingston upon Hull(FC)
wotsupcas wrote:Well we'll see whose right in the fullness of time. And if you don't think Germany has a bigger say than say , Portugal I think you're being naive in the extreme
Three years on and they have not caved. Wasn't this supposed to be the easiest thing in the world?
I hope you are right, because if you are wrong you and your mates have sunk this country.
Whoever stands by a just cause and fights for the freedom and liberation of his land from the invaders, the settlers and the colonialists, cannot possibly be called terrorist."
JACK DETH wrote:Three years on and they have not caved. Wasn't this supposed to be the easiest thing in the world?
I hope you are right, because if you are wrong you and your mates have sunk this country.
Of course they haven't relented , why would they. Theresa may never told them we would walk . Think it was Barnier that said no deal was never mentioned by the British negotiators. And how have I sunk this country?
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12637 Location: Leicestershire.
Setting aside the national interest and trying to think like a politician...
Brexit is a massive blame bomb and nobody wants it to go off in their hands. You’re either failing to honour democracy by preventing it or responsible for the consequences of delivering it. So it is key to shape perceptions so that it seems like somebody else is making the decision.
Boris Johnson’s plan seems to be: 1. Make the EU an offer they can’t accept 2. Hope parliament (mostly Labour) block no deal (or, less likely, take a share of the blame for letting it proceed) 3. Go for a general election saying he did everything he could but that he was stymied by the perfidious EU and treacherous socialists, winning over Brexit party voters, while the remain vote is split 4. Big majority, 5 more years and room to manoeuvre - he won’t have thought any further than that
Labour, seeing this coming, won’t want to be stuck on point 2 - either voting down no deal and denying Brexit voters their dream, or allowing it and being consigned to electoral irrelevance as many of their voters switch to the Lib Dems. They’ve been banging on about a GE for what seems like forever, but a no deal versus remain referendum first would now be more attractive for them imo. No deal is sufficiently different from what was pitched in 2016 to justify another vote, again imo. And either Boris/no deal loses or Labour dodge any share of the blame if the people decide to take the no deal plunge, and they can push for a GE again if/when it all goes a bit shizzle.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Oct 26 2005 Posts: 3829 Location: In the seaside town ...that they forgot to bomb
Just when I thought this whole fiasco couldn't get anymore bizarre, we now have the honorable member for the 18th century sat on the front bench!
I just hope when the right wing ultra's reach Brexit Nirvana their next mission is to bring back the death penalty, hopefully followed by a new act of crimes against the state.
Imagine a pay-per-view channel with the leading "vote leave" protagonists summarily executed - now, that's entertainment.
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!
The Devil's Advocate wrote:Just when I thought this whole fiasco couldn't get anymore bizarre, we now have the honorable member for the 18th century sat on the front bench!
I just hope when the right wing ultra's reach Brexit Nirvana their next mission is to bring back the death penalty, hopefully followed by a new act of crimes against the state.
Imagine a pay-per-view channel with the leading "vote leave" protagonists summarily executed - now, that's entertainment.
Wow. Just wow. The more I hear from the left wing ultras on here makes me more determined to stay just right of centre.
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