Mintball wrote:Well hopefully he's not so upset by all this gay marriage stuff that he's likely to pop into a crowded church and shoot himself dead as a statement.
Personally, I think more opponents of equal rights should take this course of action.
Christianity: because you're so awful you made God kill himself.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Mintball wrote:My understanding is that there are legal/pensions/tax differences anyway – and the civil partnership was not and is not marriage, which is a particular social construct.
Get hitched in a registry office and you're still married.. The original legislation was to enable LGBT couple to formalise their relationships, but without the big emotional row we're getting now because marriage is something different again.
The reality is that it means different things for different people; it has never meant the same throughout all human history or been carried out in the same way. but for many people it appears to be considered the apotheosis of a public statement of commitment.
Not all LGBT people will want to 'upgrade' their civil partnership into a marriage. They will have a choice (which they do not currently have). So the choice should also be extended to straight couple who don't want to marry but wish for some legal formality etc.
I still find the differences between entering into a civil partnership and getting married in a registry office moot if they both incur the same legal standing.
I would imagine to do either it has to be legal for you to do so (e.g. not already married or in another civil partnership), there will be some formality to be gone through with a suitable public servant, no doubt the registrar, in both cases and the act will have to be witnessed.
Anyone who sees a difference between a minimal registry office wedding and a civil partnership when after the event both leave the couple in exactly the same legal position is far too hung up on semantics IMO.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Joined: Oct 19 2003 Posts: 17898 Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
Mintball wrote:Well hopefully he's not so upset by all this gay marriage stuff that he's likely to pop into a crowded church and shoot himself dead as a statement.
I honestly find it difficult to believe that someone can get so exercised by such a trivial issue.
Joined: Feb 17 2002 Posts: 28357 Location: MACS0647-JD
Dally wrote:.. Homosexuality was illegal until quite recently,
It was? Under what law?
Dally wrote:.. Hedonism leads to decline.
WTF has "hedonism" got to do with homosexuality?
Actually i think I know, you are obsessed with the physical act of men inserting their sexual organs into another man's rectum. That, to you, IS homosexuality, that is what you think is the be all and end all, and you disapprove. this is why you mistakenly belive that homosexuality was illegal. It wasn't. Certain sexual acts between males were illegal, NOt the state of being homosexual. You would do well to try to understand that. Homosexuality is as much about women as men, and is not in either case defined by pleasures of sexual intercourse, any more than heterosexual love is.
To put it another way, if homosexuality=hedonism, what is your argument why equally heterosexuality doesn not = hedonism? What is the difference in this respect?
Dally wrote:.. Look at the succesful soceties
Oooh, yes, let's. (Why didn't you mention Greece, I wonder?)
Quote:The people of the West are not aware that there once existed in Japan a cultural tradition of homosexuality comparable to that of ancient Greece. During a period of time in which the traditional civilization of Japan reached its perfection, the homosexual love was considered a passion more noble and more gracious than heterosexuality.
I'd say that it was the influx of christian missionaries which turned that around in Japan (as the article agrees) but that was only after the foundation of one of the most successful societies;
Dally wrote:.. USA
You're joking, right?
Dally wrote:..Germany,
This is perhaps your most shocking example. You must, presumably, be aware that gay culture flourished in pre-Nazi Germany I would like to believe that you are not implying the attempted eradication of homosexuals (amongst others) by the Nazis is an example of a "successful society"?
I suggest some of these people contributed to successful societies, including such deviants as da Vinci, Hans Christian Andersen, Michelangelo, Socrates, Peter the Great, Oscar Wilde, Keynes, Proust, Plato, Cole Porter, WH Auden to name but a smattering. Or are they all the sort of deviants to whom you'd pin pink triangles?
Dally wrote:.. Homosexuality was illegal until quite recently,
It was? Under what law?
Dally wrote:.. Hedonism leads to decline.
WTF has "hedonism" got to do with homosexuality?
Actually i think I know, you are obsessed with the physical act of men inserting their sexual organs into another man's rectum. That, to you, IS homosexuality, that is what you think is the be all and end all, and you disapprove. this is why you mistakenly belive that homosexuality was illegal. It wasn't. Certain sexual acts between males were illegal, NOt the state of being homosexual. You would do well to try to understand that. Homosexuality is as much about women as men, and is not in either case defined by pleasures of sexual intercourse, any more than heterosexual love is.
To put it another way, if homosexuality=hedonism, what is your argument why equally heterosexuality doesn not = hedonism? What is the difference in this respect?
Dally wrote:.. Look at the succesful soceties
Oooh, yes, let's. (Why didn't you mention Greece, I wonder?)
Quote:The people of the West are not aware that there once existed in Japan a cultural tradition of homosexuality comparable to that of ancient Greece. During a period of time in which the traditional civilization of Japan reached its perfection, the homosexual love was considered a passion more noble and more gracious than heterosexuality.
I'd say that it was the influx of christian missionaries which turned that around in Japan (as the article agrees) but that was only after the foundation of one of the most successful societies;
Dally wrote:.. USA
You're joking, right?
Dally wrote:..Germany,
This is perhaps your most shocking example. You must, presumably, be aware that gay culture flourished in pre-Nazi Germany I would like to believe that you are not implying the attempted eradication of homosexuals (amongst others) by the Nazis is an example of a "successful society"?
I suggest some of these people contributed to successful societies, including such deviants as da Vinci, Hans Christian Andersen, Michelangelo, Socrates, Peter the Great, Oscar Wilde, Keynes, Proust, Plato, Cole Porter, WH Auden to name but a smattering. Or are they all the sort of deviants to whom you'd pin pink triangles?
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
"This is perhaps your most shocking example. You must, presumably, be aware that gay culture flourished in pre-Nazi Germany I would like to believe that you are not implying the attempted eradication of homosexuals (amongst others) by the Nazis is an example of a "successful society"? "
Isn't the whole point that the Nazis came to power on the back of economic strife and moral and national decline? Wasn't there a backlash against homosexuals? Now, we have similar circumstances in the UK and the Western world generally at present. If I were a practicisng homosexual I would be keeping my head down as it were rather than campaigning vigourously for further rights.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Dally wrote:"This is perhaps your most shocking example. You must, presumably, be aware that gay culture flourished in pre-Nazi Germany I would like to believe that you are not implying the attempted eradication of homosexuals (amongst others) by the Nazis is an example of a "successful society"? "
Isn't the whole point that the Nazis came to power on the back of economic strife and moral and national decline? Wasn't there a backlash against homosexuals? Now, we have similar circumstances in the UK and the Western world generally at present. If I were a practicing homosexual I would be keeping my head down as it were rather than campaigning vigorously for further rights.
This is quite bizarre. Where is there any evidence homsexuals are the likely target for any backlash given the present circumstances in the UK and the Western world? The circumstances we face are economic in nature not cultural and I don't see any great moral crusade one way or the other.
Homsexuals aren't remotely on the radar. The privileged few, bankers and large tax avoiding corporations are. If you want to look at a particular social group who may be caught up in any popular backlash to the problems we face, it's immigrants.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Joined: Feb 17 2002 Posts: 28357 Location: MACS0647-JD
Dally wrote:... Isn't the whole point that the Nazis came to power on the back of economic strife and moral and national decline?
As there is absolutely no link whatsoever between either of those things and sexual orientation, clearly not. Or are you suggesting that any economic strife was the result of homosexuality?
Dally wrote:...Wasn't there a backlash against homosexuals?
There was a Nazi party against homosexuals, who were not only scapegoated along with Jews, gypsies etc., but were also accused of being non-Aryan. Do you seriously contend this counts as a "backlash"?
Dally wrote:...Now, we have similar circumstances in the UK and the Western world generally at present.
What?? Similar, as in pre-WWII Germany??? Are you serious????
Dally wrote:... If I were a practicisng homosexual I would be keeping my head down as it were rather than campaigning vigourously for further rights.
Why, exactly? Are you darkly hinting that homosexuals will soon be at risk of the deathcamps again? Or what? You've lost me. "Head down"? Why would you be?
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
If I was the sort of person who would seek to deny rights to others with no justification for doing so other than my own petty prejudices, I'd be keeping my head down.
Christianity: because you're so awful you made God kill himself.
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