Post subject: Re: George Galloway wins Bradford West
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:46 pm
Chief Stinkwort
International Star
Joined: Oct 26 2011 Posts: 1085 Location: Leeds
Without knowing details of your strike I can't comment possibly comment on it.
Nor do I know who the 'Trots' are that you are referring to. I do know that Galloway is not and would never describe himself as a Trot. Nor would the vast majority of his supporters.
Furthermore entryism is distinctly not 'de rigeur' among Trotskyite groups...it may have been prior to the expulsion of the Militant tendency, but the two largest Trotskyite organisations in Britain wouldn't touch New Labour with a bargepole, let alone think about trying to change it from within.
Post subject: Housing Benefit Cuts for the Scroungers.
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:13 pm
WIZEB
Player Coach
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12791 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
Well I want to publicly apologise to Minty for my downright personal nastiness earlier in this thread. I agree with the vast majority of what she posts and enjoy the way she sticks up for herself. I like George, she doesn't. I'll have to be big enough to live with that!
Post subject: Re: George Galloway wins Bradford West
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:28 pm
Chief Stinkwort
International Star
Joined: Oct 26 2011 Posts: 1085 Location: Leeds
Mintball wrote:You havenot come up with anything close to proof.
Must try harder.
No-one and certainly not I, can disprove something you say happened if they were not there. I have admitted this. You should be big enough to admit that Galloway has consistently and publicly railed against homophobia, both on his radio show and at public meetings. This I can prove. The evidence, including a discussion between Galloway and Peter Tatchell is all over that there video sharing site.
Galloway is not perfect on these issues. He comes from a strict Catholic background and clearly carries a lot of baggage from it, but at least he will publicly speak out against homophobia when challenged by bigots.
Post subject: Housing Benefit Cuts for the Scroungers.
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:53 pm
WIZEB
Player Coach
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12791 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
What there isn't any denying is that the anti Iraq war ticket GG formulated his campaign upon, annihalating the Labour Party in the process, still resonates so loudly a decade after the event. I personally believe many will never turn back, or particularly should.
Post subject: Re: George Galloway wins Bradford West
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:23 pm
Chief Stinkwort
International Star
Joined: Oct 26 2011 Posts: 1085 Location: Leeds
Mintball wrote:Christ, Charlie Marx would be downright embarrassed by some of you lot.
And never mind Lenin: 'an infantile disorder' indeed.
Have you actually read Left-wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder? You scoff at entryism and then accuse your antagonists by quoting a tract that was written (in terms of Britain at least) very specifically to encourage it. Some mistake surely?
Post subject: Housing Benefit Cuts for the Scroungers.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:11 am
WIZEB
Player Coach
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12791 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
Mintball wrote:Don't worry. Trots wear out decent young people very quickly.
Perhaps so, and you have every right to believe he's a Pied Piper. The fact remains that he does inspire and energise people. His passion, maybe flamboyancy, mixed with his oratory brilliance is bandwagon jumping, magnetic material. He's proven to have that ability time and time again. Anthony Wedgewood Benn was another. When they speak, you listen, (maybe not agree) there are very few others over the last 30 years who have had the same ability.
Post subject: Re: Housing Benefit Cuts for the Scroungers.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:34 am
Kosh
Moderator
Joined: Jul 31 2003 Posts: 36786 Location: Leafy Worcester, home of the Black Pear
WIZEB wrote:Perhaps so, and you have every right to believe he's a Pied Piper. The fact remains that he does inspire and energise people. His passion, maybe flamboyancy, mixed with his oratory brilliance is bandwagon jumping, magnetic material. He's proven to have that ability time and time again. Anthony Wedgewood Benn was another. When they speak, you listen, (maybe not agree) there are very few others over the last 30 years who have had the same ability.
Galloway is not fit to carry Benn's boots, let alone lace them. Neither would he have entertained some of the frankly nauseating stunts that 'Gorgeous George' has pulled in order to get airtime and column inches.
Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One
Post subject: Housing Benefit Cuts for the Scroungers.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:46 am
WIZEB
Player Coach
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12791 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
Kosh wrote:Galloway is not fit to carry Benn's boots, let alone lace them. Neither would he have entertained some of the frankly nauseating stunts that 'Gorgeous George' has pulled in order to get airtime and column inches.
I don't disagree! Still, that doesn't mean he lacks the abilities I spoke of above. Militant were at the original forefront of fighting the hated poll tax. It was them who energised the early campaign that led too it's abandonment. It doesn't mean you had to agree with their full swathe of policies. Some common ground has to be found at time in my opinion Kosh. A means to an end!
Post subject: Re: Housing Benefit Cuts for the Scroungers.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:24 am
Chief Stinkwort
International Star
Joined: Oct 26 2011 Posts: 1085 Location: Leeds
Kosh wrote:Galloway is not fit to carry Benn's boots, let alone lace them. Neither would he have entertained some of the frankly nauseating stunts that 'Gorgeous George' has pulled in order to get airtime and column inches.
Tony Benn would certainly disagree. Benn was one of the very few MP's to actively fight and testify against Galloway's expulsion from the Labour Party. He and Galloway have worked closely together as President and vice-president of the Stop the War Coalition for over a decade, sharing platforms at scores of meetings. He's also been a regular contributor to Galloway's talkshows.
True, Benn doesn't have Galloway's ego, but anyone who's seen his one-man show would know that he's not shy at garnering the limelight every now and then.
Post subject: Re: George Galloway wins Bradford West
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:07 pm
Mintball
All Time Great
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Chief Stinkwort wrote:Without knowing details of your strike I can't comment possibly comment on it...
Workers. They voted to strike to defend their editor who was being sacked on utterly trumped up grounds (as later proven).
Being a right-on lefty I'd expect this to be all you needed to know.
But just to fill in a tad more, the self-described CEO wanted to replace the aforementioned editor with her son in law. He was being backed by Socialist Action – and was, indeed, a 'former' member of that group (which doesn't exist and therefore nobody is ever a member of it). Over a number of years, the CEO and a couple of her family had managed to get assorted SA types on the management committee in order to pave the way for the sacking/coup.
SA it was, which also organised for their puppet, Ken Livingstone to use Parliamentary privilege to threaten to put down an EDM that would libel my member, thus meaning that an EDM calling for the management to go to ACAS was withdrawn. We had the support of the likes of Tony Benn and Jeremy Corbyn and assorted others – and pretty much every trades union in the UK.
Chief Stinkwort wrote:Nor do I know who the 'Trots' are that you are referring to...
See above. But I've also seen assorted other Trots/Trot groups in action – and they don't give a toss about ordinary union members, for instance. They'll try to stall negotiated settlements that would really make a massive difference to low-paid workers – but hey, it would be so much better to train them in 'struggle' by having a strike than their lives improving.
In the above case, I'm particularly thinking of members of the Socialist Party.
Chief Stinkwort wrote:I do know that Galloway is not and would never describe himself as a Trot. Nor would the vast majority of his supporters...
Yet until a split in 2007 (two years after Galloway was elected in Tower Hamlets), Respect's supporters included the SWP (some stuff here).
And it continues to have the support of the Socialist Unity Network, the Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist), the Muslim Association of Britain and the Muslim Council of Britain.
Chief Stinkwort wrote:Furthermore entryism is distinctly not 'de rigeur' among Trotskyite groups...it may have been prior to the expulsion of the Militant tendency, but the two largest Trotskyite organisations in Britain wouldn't touch New Labour with a bargepole, let alone think about trying to change it from within.
See my comments above. I have direct experience of various Trotskyist groups behaving in an entryist manner. The parliamentary Labour Party is far from the only thing various such groups would like to control.
Chief Stinkwort wrote:Without knowing details of your strike I can't comment possibly comment on it...
Workers. They voted to strike to defend their editor who was being sacked on utterly trumped up grounds (as later proven).
Being a right-on lefty I'd expect this to be all you needed to know.
But just to fill in a tad more, the self-described CEO wanted to replace the aforementioned editor with her son in law. He was being backed by Socialist Action – and was, indeed, a 'former' member of that group (which doesn't exist and therefore nobody is ever a member of it). Over a number of years, the CEO and a couple of her family had managed to get assorted SA types on the management committee in order to pave the way for the sacking/coup.
SA it was, which also organised for their puppet, Ken Livingstone to use Parliamentary privilege to threaten to put down an EDM that would libel my member, thus meaning that an EDM calling for the management to go to ACAS was withdrawn. We had the support of the likes of Tony Benn and Jeremy Corbyn and assorted others – and pretty much every trades union in the UK.
Chief Stinkwort wrote:Nor do I know who the 'Trots' are that you are referring to...
See above. But I've also seen assorted other Trots/Trot groups in action – and they don't give a toss about ordinary union members, for instance. They'll try to stall negotiated settlements that would really make a massive difference to low-paid workers – but hey, it would be so much better to train them in 'struggle' by having a strike than their lives improving.
In the above case, I'm particularly thinking of members of the Socialist Party.
Chief Stinkwort wrote:I do know that Galloway is not and would never describe himself as a Trot. Nor would the vast majority of his supporters...
Yet until a split in 2007 (two years after Galloway was elected in Tower Hamlets), Respect's supporters included the SWP (some stuff here).
And it continues to have the support of the Socialist Unity Network, the Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist), the Muslim Association of Britain and the Muslim Council of Britain.
Chief Stinkwort wrote:Furthermore entryism is distinctly not 'de rigeur' among Trotskyite groups...it may have been prior to the expulsion of the Militant tendency, but the two largest Trotskyite organisations in Britain wouldn't touch New Labour with a bargepole, let alone think about trying to change it from within.
See my comments above. I have direct experience of various Trotskyist groups behaving in an entryist manner. The parliamentary Labour Party is far from the only thing various such groups would like to control.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
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