Joined: Nov 29 2008 Posts: 1318 Location: Kirkstall, Leeds
I've met many people who previously experienced same-sex attraction and called themselves gay. They are now Christians, have changed their ways and have solid heterosexual marriages.
Most armchair experts would say that they were never gay in the first place.
When is a No True Scotsman fallacy not a fallacy? When it's committed by liberal bigots, of course!
Rock God X wrote:It's not about minorities, you dolt. It's about peddling the idea that, not only is homosexuality a condition that requires a 'cure', but that they have the necessary expertise to deliver that cure. Homosexuality is a natural part of human variation. They might as well be advertising a 'cure' for black skin or ginger hair.
No I am afraid it goes much more deeply than homosexuality, it's about the principles on which any sustainable society needs to be based. It's about where lines are drawn. It's about freedom of expression. the fact that you refuse to see that shows that either you cannot see the bigger picture beyond the end of your nose or you just prefer name calling over inconsequential issues.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
kirkstaller wrote:I've met many people who previously experienced same-sex attraction and called themselves gay. They are now Christians, have changed their ways and have solid heterosexual marriages.
Most armchair experts would say that they were never gay in the first place...
Well indeed. They might be/have been bisexual.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Dally wrote:No I am afraid it goes much more deeply than homosexuality, it's about the principles on which any sustainable society needs to be based. It's about where lines are drawn. It's about freedom of expression. the fact that you refuse to see that shows that either you cannot see the bigger picture beyond the end of your nose or you just prefer name calling over inconsequential issues.
This shows either a misunderstanding of freedom of speech or a deliberate attempt to pretend that freedom of speech can exist in a vacuum that involves no responsibility.
So, in your version, it becomes entirely acceptable to yell 'fire!' in a crowded building.
There is no evidence that sexuality is something that is chosen, or that it is a disease and can be 'cured'. Experts in the field support this.
Thus to advertise such 'cures' would not only be in contravention of advertising standards etc, but more important in this sense, it could do damage to vulnerable people.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Rock God X wrote:...So, it's not a freedom of speech issue at all. It's about people promoting a 'therapy' that is not only likely to be psychologically harmful, but that is for a 'condition' that does not require 'therapy' at all. Not only should they not be allowed to advertise such a 'therapy', it should be banned altogether.
If it's harmful, I agree.
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.
Dally wrote:No I am afraid it goes much more deeply than homosexuality, it's about the principles on which any sustainable society needs to be based. It's about where lines are drawn. It's about freedom of expression. the fact that you refuse to see that shows that either you cannot see the bigger picture beyond the end of your nose or you just prefer name calling over inconsequential issues.
It most assuredly is not about freedom of expression.
There are two issues. One is that it is not acceptable to refer to homosexuality as a disease any more than it would be acceptable to refer to black people as being 'disabled' solely by virtue of their skin colour. The other (and arguably the most important) is that, if you are going to advertise a 'therapy', it ought to be independently medically proven to work. And it ought to be for a condition for which therapy is required.
Because of people like you and Kirkstaller, there are gay people out there who are reluctant to admit their true sexuality, even to themselves (your son being a prime example of this). These people are vulnerable to scumbags like those in the article and could be subjected to great psychological harm in an attempt to make themselves more 'normal'. What homosexual people who are struggling with their sexual identity need is help and support to accept who they are and to be comfortable with the way they were born. They don't need telling that they have a disease and that they can simply 'pray the gay away'.
Christianity: because you're so awful you made God kill himself.
Well, I'd imagine that those taking advantage of such a 'service' won't be people who are secure and happy in their sexuality. The 'therapy' is likely to be accessed by those who have been brought up/brainwashed to believe that being gay is in some way immoral or abnormal, and who are struggling to reconcile this with the feelings they're experiencing. The vast majority are probably already in a great deal of emotional turmoil, and for a bunch of religious nuts to then set about 'curing' them of their homosexuality would be as good a definition of harmful as one could imagine.
Christianity: because you're so awful you made God kill himself.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
El Barbudo wrote:If it's harmful, I agree.
If someone is LGB – or thinks they may be – and is so unhappy with this that they are likely to consider a 'cure', then it would seem fair to consider them as vulnerable and not in a particularly healthy mental/emotional state.
This sort of thing exploits that – and could do real harm.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Mintball wrote:If someone is LGB – or thinks they may be – and is so unhappy with this that they are likely to consider a 'cure', then it would seem fair to consider them as vulnerable and not in a particularly healthy mental/emotional state.
This sort of thing exploits that – and could do real harm.
I might set up a charity "curing" poor deluded souls that believe in the Sky Pixie, do you think I'd get a Lottery grant?
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