bren2k wrote:Further lies - world renowned smirker Priti Patel has today stated that the Tories will 'reduce' immigration, but has carefully avoided any targets; which given that they failed year on year to deliver any of their previous 'targets' - is probably a wise move. She simultaneously used some more made-up figures about what migration would be under a Labour government, based on another set of fantasy projections from their busy fake news dept.

It's a woeful campaign by the Tories so far - their promises are being debunked almost before they make them.

Sal Paradise wrote:
This will take years to come right and probably needs a complete rethink of what we want the NHS to provide and how much money are you prepared to spend to deliver it. You could dump the whole GDP of the UK into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough.

silver2 wrote:So, somebody please remind me once again, the advantages of brexit are:

Cronus wrote:It's an important question. But to understand the answer, you need to understand why the EU was formed, the true ideology behind it, and where it is heading.

The key point for me is: the EU you see today is about as far removed from the ECSC/EEC 60 years ago as the EU wants to be in another 60 years. The goal is a true Federation of Europe, gradual removal of nation states and borders, and absolute centralised power in Brussels. Even in 1957 the ECSC was hailed as the "first step to a European federation" - and if you pay attention to the senior figures throughout the history of this European project, they have always hinted at this. Some have acknowledged it outright.

You people are quick to roll your eyes as if it isn't already happening (Maastricht, Lisbon, the Euro?) - but ask yourself, why have the EU always refused any truly meaningful reform? Simple: because watering down their 'pillars' means the goal cannot be achieved in full.

Since 2016 I've said if the EU had shown a willingness to meaningful reform I would have voted remain. But they have always slapped down any suggestion of true reform.

Despite the stark inevitable problems, they pursue the goal. The Eurozone has caused devastation across the Mediterranean nations, leading to mass unemployment and enormous levels of youth emigration. Indeed, massive movement of people across Europe (mainly from South/East to North/West) has caused economical and societal issues everywhere. You simply cannot throw 28 differing nations together without friction - the swing to the hard right across Europe being the direct consequence.

When confronted with a crisis, the EU invariably flounders and fails. The Balkans, Ukraine, the migrant/refugee crisis, the Eurozone crisis for example. That's before we even look at the creaking political and economic situations in countries such as Italy and France, or the weakening of Germany both economically and politically in the face of Merkel's idiotic migration policy - despite Merkel herself acknowledging almost 10 years ago that "multiculturalism has utterly failed". Something those of us not blinkered by a loony left-wing ideology have known for a long time.

Now - if you like the idea of all of that - great, vote to remain and join that bell-end with his EU hat and loudhailer outside Parliament. If not, you should seriously reconsider your options.

I've also always said we will take a hit after leaving, whatever the circumstances. I'm of the view it's worth it in the long run. The UK's economy has proven itself to be resilient and will succeed out of the EU.

If the EU had never existed and its current structure was proposed today, it would be laughed out of existence.

bren2k wrote:Further lies - world renowned smirker Priti Patel has today stated that the Tories will 'reduce' immigration, but has carefully avoided any targets; which given that they failed year on year to deliver any of their previous 'targets' - is probably a wise move. She simultaneously used some more made-up figures about what migration would be under a Labour government, based on another set of fantasy projections from their busy fake news dept.

It's a woeful campaign by the Tories so far - their promises are being debunked almost before they make them.

The Ghost of '99 wrote:Well before we a lovely Tory "fundamental rethink", how about we try spending as much as the average other civilised countries spend of their GDP on healthcare and see how it goes. The NHS, even with the excess bureaucracy built into it over years of target setting and rubbish like internal markets, is a remarkably efficient user of what resources we give it.

King Street Cat wrote:It's the whole irony of Priti Patel berating immigration which I find astounding, the same immigration which allowed her parents to move here from Uganda. Still, if they'd have stuck around for a few more years, Idi Amin would have booted them out anyway. Or worse.