Joined: Nov 19 2005 Posts: 2359 Location: Marys Place, near the River, in Nebraska, Waitin' on A Sunny Day
samwire wrote:and if you've over 6 months to live, why not work. why sit and wallow?
Because I value spending my last months with my family over going to work and earning money for some rich, overpaid CEO who probably couldn't give a to$$ if I had cancer or not and would be replacing me a week after I died. Thats why.
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan
rover49 wrote:Try telling that to the young couple who have just had their tax credits halved and cannot make ends meet. Mind you, there is some good news coming on April 6th, all those on a million a year will be 42K better off, perhaps they will 'adopt' a family.
Current thoughts - Mago out or get running up them plantations, get fit or get rid. Maybe a back up halfback, someone with a bit of experience on a short term deal. Big tall strong running second rower, like a McMeekin or Sironen type back rower.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
samwire wrote:yes, i failed to comprehend how someone could come up with such a preposterous idea. then i realised it went along side paying people not to commit crime.
You failed – repeatedly – to comprehend that it was not my idea, even though I had made it patently clear who had mentioned it, and that it was not suggested (by that original person or, later, by myself) as anything more than an example.
Then you twisted another comment – and have persisted in pretending that what you claim was said was said, when it never was.
You're either very stupid, a troll with nothing positive to add to any discussion or a combination of the two.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
El Barbudo wrote:Compare and contrast, Obama has resisted full- on austerity and has now had 13 consecutive quarters of growth. Cameron, on the other hand, is pursuing his mission to dismantle as much of the welfare state as he can.
It will be fascinating to see how the French economy performs under Hollande in the next two years. It should provide a better comparison of the success or failure of the coalition's economic policies relative to a Labour style government.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Big Graeme wrote:Because for a considerable length of time it was cheaper to pay the benefit universally than means test it, .....
That may be so but there is another reason why the benefit was universal. It is to do with, ironically enough, being "all in it together". If you pay into the welfare state via taxes and NI and you also benefit from it (in this case via child benefit) then you have a stake in the system. If it is all one way traffic in that some people only ever pay in and are never eligible for any form of pay out, then sooner or later the system breaks down as those people begrudge paying anything in at all and start to support parties from the right to who promise them just that. We are well down that road and it is quite deliberate policy from the right which is very divisive.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Cibaman wrote:It will be fascinating to see how the French economy performs under Hollande in the next two years. It should provide a better comparison of the success or failure of the coalition's economic policies relative to a Labour style government.
Why? You are assuming a UK Labour government would be a clone of the Hollande administration which it would not be and furthermore there are so many differences between France and the UK economically already you would not be comparing like with like.
It's far simpler IMO. Which is the better approach? The more pro-growth style of Obama or Austerity? It seems so far the yanks are winning that particular debate.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
DaveO wrote:Why? You are assuming a UK Labour government would be a clone of the Hollande administration which it would not be and furthermore there are so many differences between France and the UK economically already you would not be comparing like with like.
It's far simpler IMO. Which is the better approach? The more pro-growth style of Obama or Austerity? It seems so far the yanks are winning that particular debate.
No one will win that debate until they reach equilibrium, a state of steady growth with the budget deficit under control. Both the UK and the US are a very long way off that. Obama may be in the lead now but he's nowhere near the winning post.
The French economy isnt the same as the UK's but it is more similar to the UK than is the US. And Hollande's policies are much closer to Labour than are Obama's. But even allowing for the differences, if the French economy significantly outperforms the UK's in the next 2 years, Labour will inevitably cite that at the next election as a vindication of their views on how the economy should have been managed. And ditto for the Tories if the French economy does worse. The state of the French economy will be a big deal at the next election.
It's a long piece, very alarmist in nature, and clearly the main aim is to flog copies of their 'Wealth Preservation Report'.
But leaving that aside, I'm wondering what people's views are of the facts and figures within the article, and the outlook for our glorious nation? Moneyweek tend to be pretty good and the key facts seem valid enough. The Welfare State is not only a massive burden, but has morphed into a monster and in its present form appears to be completely unsustainable without radical changes to not only our economy but the expectations of our society.
Of course, assuming the article's projections are correct, it also ignores any intervention measures or other action that may help ease the damage. Presumably some of these are touched upon on an individual and national level in their much-vaunted 'Report'.
To save a little time, skip the exhausting promotional crap and start from the section entitled, "The downward slide has begun".
I'm no economic expert and would be interested in the views of my more learned peers on these fine boards.
Has anyone else stumbled across this cheery little number?
It's a long piece, very alarmist in nature, and clearly the main aim is to flog copies of their 'Wealth Preservation Report'.
But leaving that aside, I'm wondering what people's views are of the facts and figures within the article, and the outlook for our glorious nation? Moneyweek tend to be pretty good and the key facts seem valid enough. The Welfare State is not only a massive burden, but has morphed into a monster and in its present form appears to be completely unsustainable without radical changes to not only our economy but the expectations of our society.
Of course, assuming the article's projections are correct, it also ignores any intervention measures or other action that may help ease the damage. Presumably some of these are touched upon on an individual and national level in their much-vaunted 'Report'.
To save a little time, skip the exhausting promotional crap and start from the section entitled, "The downward slide has begun".
I'm no economic expert and would be interested in the views of my more learned peers on these fine boards.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
DaveO wrote:That may be so but there is another reason why the benefit was universal. It is to do with, ironically enough, being "all in it together". If you pay into the welfare state via taxes and NI and you also benefit from it (in this case via child benefit) then you have a stake in the system. If it is all one way traffic in that some people only ever pay in and are never eligible for any form of pay out, then sooner or later the system breaks down as those people begrudge paying anything in at all and start to support parties from the right to who promise them just that. We are well down that road and it is quite deliberate policy from the right which is very divisive.
Very good post.
The divide-and-rule stuff is really quite heartbreaking – at least in terms of how effective it is being at present. You only need to look at the survey that was released last week that showed the difference between what many people believe is the situation on benefits being paid and the reality to see how effective it has been.
But then again, the right has the likes of Murdoch and the Mail group behind it. And a generally dumbed-down public discourse doesn't help.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
samwire wrote:to buy votes. they're scandalous. if people aren't able to live on their wages, then force companies to increase the minimum wage to where they can.
my sister gets them. she drives a brand spanking new nissan juke (with a private reg). iphones, ipads, etc. good luck to her, meant i got a half decent xmas present.
My son and his family get them, no Nissan, no iPads just a struggle to make it last.
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
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