Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:59 pm
Chris28
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Oct 19 2003 Posts: 17898 Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
Sal Paradise wrote:What a load of rubbish - I am talking about executing those convicted of premeditated crime where there is no doubt e.g London bombers, Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Brady, Rose West etc - not sure how this counts as revenge?
I simply cannot see the value in keeping them alive in reasonable comfort for 40 years+. There's was premeditated murder for which they should suffer the ultimate penalty, Brady - he been in prison since the 60's why? The poor mother who died this year has been tortured all this time he would give up where he buried the boy - if he had been executed he might have given that up at the point of no return.
Presumably the London bombers would have been executed if they'd been caught. Although you'd need a pretty good surgeon to prepare them for execution.
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:29 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Ajw71 wrote:Not necessarily. You can still commit murder without planning it.
There has to be an intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm, sounds pretty much like premeditation to me
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:38 pm
Ajw71
Player Coach
Joined: Feb 23 2006 Posts: 1978
cod'ead wrote:There has to be an intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm, sounds pretty much like premeditation to me
If we are brawling in the street and as we are rolling around on the floor I see a broken bottle, pick it up and shove it in your gut. You die, and the prosecution prove I intended to cause you GBH I have murdered you.
I haven't planned in advance to kill you or cause you GBH, it was a split second decision as I saw the bottle on the floor.
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:41 pm
Him
International Board Member
Joined: Jun 19 2002 Posts: 14970 Location: Campaigning for a deep attacking line
Codead - I wouldn't really agree with that. You can do something on the spur of the moment that isn't pre-planned. For instance you go home, find someone in bed with the wife and in a rage stab him with a pair of scissors on the bed-side table. I'd say that wasn't premeditated, whereas the 7/7 bombings, say, would be because they were planned and committed in the cold light of day.
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:49 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Him wrote:Codead - I wouldn't really agree with that. You can do something on the spur of the moment that isn't pre-planned. For instance you go home, find someone in bed with the wife and in a rage stab him with a pair of scissors on the bed-side table. I'd say that wasn't premeditated, whereas the 7/7 bombings, say, would be because they were planned and committed in the cold light of day.
By picking up the scissors and attacking him with them, you obviously intended to cause him harm, the fact that scissors can cause grievous harm drops you in to that category. There is no time limit on premeditation, you don't have to sit brooding or planning it for days or even hours.
Him wrote:Codead - I wouldn't really agree with that. You can do something on the spur of the moment that isn't pre-planned. For instance you go home, find someone in bed with the wife and in a rage stab him with a pair of scissors on the bed-side table. I'd say that wasn't premeditated, whereas the 7/7 bombings, say, would be because they were planned and committed in the cold light of day.
By picking up the scissors and attacking him with them, you obviously intended to cause him harm, the fact that scissors can cause grievous harm drops you in to that category. There is no time limit on premeditation, you don't have to sit brooding or planning it for days or even hours.
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:53 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Ajw71 wrote:If we are brawling in the street and as we are rolling around on the floor I see a broken bottle, pick it up and shove it in your gut. You die, and the prosecution prove I intended to cause you GBH I have murdered you.
I haven't planned in advance to kill you or cause you GBH, it was a split second decision as I saw the bottle on the floor.
Then you could apply the defence of defending yourself or momentarily insanity. If it could be proven that you picked up the bottle with the intention of causing me grievous harm, you have murdered me, simple as.
"Send him down"
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:01 pm
Big Graeme
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Mar 08 2002 Posts: 26578 Location: On the set of NEDS...
Sal Paradise wrote:What a load of rubbish - I am talking about executing those convicted of premeditated crime where there is no doubt e.g London bombers, Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Brady, Rose West etc - not sure how this counts as revenge?
I simply cannot see the value in keeping them alive in reasonable comfort for 40 years+. There's was premeditated murder for which they should suffer the ultimate penalty, Brady - he been in prison since the 60's why? The poor mother who died this year has been tortured all this time he would give up where he buried the boy - if he had been executed he might have given that up at the point of no return.
You do know that Brady comitted his crimes while we had capital punishment, it didn't stop him.
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:09 pm
Sal Paradise
International Chairman
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
cod'ead wrote:By picking up the scissors and attacking him with them, you obviously intended to cause him harm, the fact that scissors can cause grievous harm drops you in to that category. There is no time limit on premeditation, you don't have to sit brooding or planning it for days or even hours.
For me there are differing degrees: 1. Those who go out with the intention of killing someone e.g. drugs lords, Rose West 2. Those who ensure if things don't go according to plan they have a back up 3. Self defence that goes to far 4. Man finds wife in bed with best mate
The emotional the drive to do the deed is different and a life sentence for 1 & 2 seems odd given the different degrees of drive.
cod'ead wrote:By picking up the scissors and attacking him with them, you obviously intended to cause him harm, the fact that scissors can cause grievous harm drops you in to that category. There is no time limit on premeditation, you don't have to sit brooding or planning it for days or even hours.
For me there are differing degrees: 1. Those who go out with the intention of killing someone e.g. drugs lords, Rose West 2. Those who ensure if things don't go according to plan they have a back up 3. Self defence that goes to far 4. Man finds wife in bed with best mate
The emotional the drive to do the deed is different and a life sentence for 1 & 2 seems odd given the different degrees of drive.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Post subject: Re: Irvine Patnick RIP (rot in pieces)
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:12 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Sal Paradise wrote:For me there are differing degrees: 1. Those who go out with the intention of killing someone e.g. drugs lords, Rose West 2. Those who ensure if things don't go according to plan they have a back up 3. Self defence that goes to far 4. Man finds wife in bed with best mate
The emotional the drive to do the deed is different and a life sentence for 1 & 2 seems odd given the different degrees of drive.
Thankfully the drafting and implimentation of the law is not up to you
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
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