cod'ead wrote:The problems of the Labour party will be like a vicar's tea party compared to the interfighting that will now ensue in the parliamentary tory party. Once the dust has settled (should be after the summer break), then Camoron's real problems will start to surface.

He's going into the next five years with a smaller majority than Major enjoyed and an equal number of right-wing nutjobs. Farage won't be needed to "hold Cameron's feet to the fire" over Europe, he's got plenty on his own team to do that. He'll no longer have the LimpDems to blame for not being able to implement ALL of his manifesto commitments. Now the UK public will see him for the sneaky, conniving bully that he is.

Labour may be looking at a few years in the wilderness but the last thing they should do is even consider a return to Blairism. No matter what the likes of Mandelson may say, Blair was 20 years ago and thanks to him and his bessie GWB, the world is a completely different place. Labour have suffered far worse defeats, they'll get over this

Dally wrote:Whilst the UK is not as bad as a lot of places I would suggest that it has and does breach several Articles. By the way, the right to a fair trial should be extended to include the people's right that certain people should not be able to avoid fair trial by virtue of their status within the establishment.

Mugwump wrote:The public's "feeling" is whatever the media chooses. I knew something was fishy the moment UKIP arrived and instead of the press ignoring these fringe cranks it instead embraced them like a cup-winning team just returned from Wembley.

Despite the fact they didn't even have enough followers to outnumber the likes of Socialist Labour they were given wildly disproportionate coverage. If I had the heads of the major media companies here right now I'd ask them - precisely WHY - despite never showing the slightest interest in fringe parties before (other than Martin Bell's silly white suit nonsense) - did you devote so much air space to UKIP early on?

From the outset UKIP had truckloads of cash to spend, but all the money in the world couldn't buy the kind of coverage the BBC was prepared to give Farage. Indeed, the BBC has served as a booster for UKIP throughout this Tory government.

And when the Beeb wasn't obsessing over Farage dunking a pint of bitter in some East End boozer it laid siege to just about every port, rail terminal and airline arrival lounge in expectation of the next breaking "Fuzzy Wuzzies At The Door" story.

The moment the Tories jumped with in the Lib-Gones we've had this self-fueling cycle of UKIP->"Polish Freebooters"->Farage->"Asylum Seeker Benefit Cheats"->UKIP->"Fuzzy Wuzzies Jumping The Fence At Calais"->Farage->...

All through the election week (in two cases immediately after Party Political Broadcasts) we've been inundated with images of France and the issues they are having over there. Now, I'm NOT saying this isn't newsworthy. But what we've seen goes above and beyond reasonable journalistic endeavor.

As I keep saying - UKIP is an election-rigging tool. Used in conjunction with the wholly aligned mainstream media which has sought to heighten the public's fear of immigrants (whether they be legitimate or not) at EVERY OPPORTUNITY it's worked to PERFECTION.

Mugwump wrote:I forgot to add - as well as an election rigging mechanism the UKIP/MSM combination serves to create a social and political climate which provides the Tory Party all the excuses it needs to trample human rights jurisdiction and more importantly - conduct NHS reforms (btw, a "reform" is, by definition, something we are meant to like).

Personally I've always thought the NHS is the primary target. UKIP invariably leads on the issue of foreigners but when you look closely they really do spend an awful lot of time talking about NHS privatization.

Now that UKIP is firmly ingrained on the national psyche I think you'll find they'll gradually begin to tone down the xenophobia whilst cranking up talk on the NHS.

It'll be the old "Good Cop, Bad Cop" routine. First "Bad Cop" - MSM reporting "yet another NHS failure"->UKIP proposes radical solution (which everyone will hate)->MSM reporting "more NHS failure"->UKIP ... another self-fueling cycle. Step forward now, "Good Cop" - David Cameron defending the honour of the NHS whilst denouncing UKIP extremism on healthcare reform - yet all the while inching further and further toward UKIP's position with a series of mini concessions which, whilst not as drastic as UKIP's proposals, ARE AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN THE REAL GOAL.

With the impending arrival of TPP I think the pressure was on from every angle to finally put the NHS to bed. No Labour government could EVER be involved with such reforms and hope to be elected next (or any other) time around. So the party threw in the towel. Once the dirty deed is done it'll "re-invent" itself once more - just in time to save us from those beastly Tories.

After smashing the NHS for good this country won't need too much encouragement to leap into Labour's clutches once again. More than likely it'll be for eight or nine years.

Do I really need to pen this charade out much further?

Lord Elpers wrote:Depends which of the various versions of PR you choose. However one of the biggest arguments against PR is that smaller parties gain too much power. It may seem fairer but are you happy with Ukip having 82 seats? or the economically irresponsible Greens having 24 seats. In any case the 2 right of Centre parties votes would total 324 and the 4 left of Centre votes would total 305 so the majority is still 19 - so how would that make a difference?

Also PR would mean manifestos are totally worthless as coalitions have to compromise on their promises and the LibDem vote shows how well the voters like that idea.

Lord Elpers wrote:No. Please spare us more of your "we was robbed" fiction. The public voted fair and square having listened to and rejected all the Labour scare stories about the NHS, zero hour contracts, the rich not paying taxes, food banks etc etc. The sooner you accept the result and move on the less angry you will be.

Lord Elpers wrote:So you do not seem to believe in democracy then?

Lord Elpers wrote:My understanding is that it is not these rights that will be repealed but rather the Act which means the judgement of the highest court in our land can be overturned by an EU court based on by broad stroke so called human rights. To suggest our country will not honour real human rights is a nonsense. We have a proud and well earned history of justice and the human rights in our country are the envy of the world.