FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin The Tories & Europe



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 135 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 14  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:07 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
SamWire wrote:
DaveO wrote:You will find it is mostly to do with employment legislation such as the working time directive.
What EU employment law does is protect the majority of people in this country from unscrupulous employers and the Tories would love to repeal all of it so people end up with no job security or employment rights whatsoever.


then the trade union movement will rise from the ashes and children will once again descend from chimneys. the communist utopia so craved by crowe, mccluskey et al will finally be realised. vote 'out' comrades, it's the only way



So, are you saying that employment law is not necessary?
At least, I think that is what that rabid outburst was meant to convey.






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:31 pm 
International Chairman
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2002
Posts: 18060
Location: On the road
Cookridge_Rhino wrote:I completely disagree that membership of the EU is a net drag on our economy. My point was that there is a huge disconnect between the opinions of the politicians (of all three major parties), and of the population. That is why there is a lot of posturing, and that is why I can't imagine the Europe issue getting solved anytime soon. All the parties feel like they need to offer a referendum in order to win votes, but they are all worried if they give the people a choice they will choose the 'wrong' option.

My point about the media was that like it or not, we are living in a country where most people decide how to vote on things like referenda, not based on an objective look at the facts and implications of their choice. But instead based on a quick glance at the options and which side has the catchiest slogan (slightly simplifying there but its not far from the truth).

I'm not a big fan of a lot of MP's, and there needs to be better systems in place to stop them basing their decisions on which will personally benefit themselves or their party. However I'd rather MP's make these sort of decisions than the public which on the whole is pretty unintelligent, very uneducated and is easily manipulated by a purely self-interested media.


I wouldn't let the vast majority of MP decide whether I should empty my cat's litter tray never mind something of this significance. The majority of MPs have little life experience outside of politics and if they were of a higher calibre they would not even be in politics.

Let's face what work experiences and specialised knowledge have any of the main party leaders got that put them in a better position to decide than the likes of Alan Sugar?






Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:38 pm 
International Board Member
Academy Player

Joined: Sep 04 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Chester
El Barbudo wrote:So, are you saying that employment law is not necessary?
At least, I think that is what that rabid outburst was meant to convey.

rabid outburst?
the only people who are having those think we're off back to the poorhouses/slavery if, heaven forbid, the tories give us a vote on something in 4 years. still, i'm sure there's plenty of people lining up to be the next tolpuddle martyrs.






TotalRl.com - Home of Stupid Questions, Friday Pix and of course Millward is a Gurner.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:45 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Mar 08 2002
Posts: 26578
Location: On the set of NEDS...
samwire wrote:rabid outburst?
the only people who are having those think we're off back to the poorhouses/slavery if, heaven forbid, the tories give us a vote on something in 4 years. still, i'm sure there's plenty of people lining up to be the next tolpuddle martyrs.



Its like political tourettes.






Image


ebay's Rugby League Bargains ¦ Boost Your eBay Sales ¦ Recommended Amazon Stuff ¦ Get a Free Ink Cart!!! ¦ Quins RL T-Shirts, BRAND NEW DESIGNS

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:26 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
Sal Paradise wrote:I wouldn't let the vast majority of MP decide whether I should empty my cat's litter tray never mind something of this significance. The majority of MPs have little life experience outside of politics and if they were of a higher calibre they would not even be in politics

That being the case, you're not actually in favour of parliamentary democracy.

As most people don't have a clue about the EU, and can't be @rsed to find out the facts, I don't see how a referendum would be much use except as a political stunt for Cameron to fob-off the UKIP tendency in his party.

Our entire constitution (monarchy, commons, lords, supreme court, etc, etc) has come about over centuries without any referenda, so why is this issue any different?






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:36 pm 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Dec 18 2010
Posts: 3853
El Barbudo wrote:
As most people don't have a clue about the EU, and can't be @rsed to find out the facts, I don't see how a referendum would be much use except as a political stunt for Cameron to fob-off the UKIP tendency in his party.



Personally, this is my main worry about this whole thing....We are putting, arguably, the most important decision in this country's future, in the hands of a huge amount of people who haven't the first clue about what they are expected to vote on.

Worryingly, for the vast majority, their decision will be hugely influenced by the likes of The Sun and The Mail - Its almost inevitable that this whole thing will turn into race/immigration issue, with the little Englanders being swayed with xenophobic rhetoric - I'm expecting plenty of anti-German, anti-French, anti-AnybodyButOurselves stuff from the majority of our popular media and I'm afraid it will become increasingly distasteful.






And so you aim towards the sky,
And you'll rise high today,
Fly away, Far away,
Far from pain....

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:56 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: May 07 2007
Posts: 12488
Location: Durham
This is nothing about Europe. It is about politics to win the next election.

It cuts the UKIP off at the knees.

It gives the Tories the chance to appeal to nationalism and to those who believe the cause of Britains woes are Europe.

It gives them clear water from the Lib Dems.

The Tories win the election and the Lib Dems are wiped out.

Cameron then negotiates with the EU who say no we will not let you be in our club but give you vetoes etc which give you economic advantages.

Cameron then goes to the country with a referendum saying i tried to negoatiate but got nowhere but we have to stay in Europe as it will be disastrous for the UK economy to leave ( he has already said he wants to negotiate powers back but that we should not withdraw from Europe).

All the major parties then say stay in Europe he either wins the vote or lose it and we withdraw from Europe.

Either way he is playing Russian Roulette with the British Economy. But as it is about winning elections who cares.






Huddersfield Giants 2013 over achievers

Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:20 pm 
Player Coach
Academy Player
User avatar

Joined: Aug 16 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Up North
What is wrong with giving the voters a say on such an important issue? After all the last time the British public voted to stay in or leave what was the EEC which was then just an economic trading club.

So much has changed since then. The EEC has become the EU with the accent more on politics and bureaucracy than trade. An undemocratic commission having such a say in legislation on issues that were previously made in our own parliament is a reasonable concern. The single currency which became the disaster many had forecast. To overhaul the inherent flaws in the Euro the EU leaders are demanding changes that will affect all 27 members and not just the 17 members who adopted the Euro.

The EU (EEC) is continually changing and so it is not unreasonable for the PM to seek to change some of the terms of our membership as indeed others are doing with regard to the single currency. The EU needs to change and give some urgent priority to solving its loss of competitiveness.

In commiting to a future referendum on this important issue it should open up some serious debate and bring forth the real facts as to the pluses and minuses so we are all better informed.

I suspect that the Labour party now will follow the Conservatives and include a referendum pledge in their manifesto.

The EU has been splendid for career politicians and bureaucrats. It has also been very good for large companies and multi-nationals who have the funds and legals teams to overcome the hurdles. (coincidentally these same politicians and large companies would have had us join the Euro so no suprise that they don't want a referendum)

But for the large number of SME's that form the backbone of the UK it has been not so good.

I have a feeling too that our bigger companies found EU trade easier than working at the emerging markets so became complacent. Which may be an answer to our dismal export performance to the BRIC market

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:12 pm 
Player Coach
Academy Player
User avatar

Joined: Aug 16 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Up North
Durham Giant wrote:This is nothing about Europe. It is about politics to win the next election.

It cuts the UKIP off at the knees.

It gives the Tories the chance to appeal to nationalism and to those who believe the cause of Britains woes are Europe.

It gives them clear water from the Lib Dems.

The Tories win the election and the Lib Dems are wiped out.

Cameron then negotiates with the EU who say no we will not let you be in our club but give you vetoes etc which give you economic advantages.

Cameron then goes to the country with a referendum saying i tried to negoatiate but got nowhere but we have to stay in Europe as it will be disastrous for the UK economy to leave ( he has already said he wants to negotiate powers back but that we should not withdraw from Europe).

All the major parties then say stay in Europe he either wins the vote or lose it and we withdraw from Europe.

Either way he is playing Russian Roulette with the British Economy. But as it is about winning elections who cares.


Well firstly of course it is about politics. This is a political issue.

You seem to be critical of a PM for being aware of the public's concern regarding the EU.

Are you against the PM trying to return some of the lost powers to our parliament?

If you read his speech he is obviously commited to remaining in the EU. But he is not shirking the very difficult job of trying to renegotiate lost powers. This may or may not be successful. But come the next election the public will know if he was successful and if he or the EU were being unreasonable and they can vote accordingley.

If he were to win the next election my guess is that all three main parties will campaign to stay in and the public will also then vote also to stay in.

Another senario is that this stategy brings out the real facts regarding our membership and it may show that leaving the EU is not the disaster that the Europhiles keep predicting.

eg Our huge trade deficit with the EU together with the cost of membership produces an unconvincing argument for staying in. (46bn GBP deficit with EU in 2011 ...17.1bn surplus with rest of world)

Indeed there could well be further trouble for the Euro before the election with more costly bailouts required.

My own view is to try and win back some powers that give some benefit to our trade but I am at present open minded as to staying in or leaving. I would like to see the full facts.

However my guess is that the real economic plus or minus to our membership is very small (UK exports to the EU are equivalent to less than 8.7% of UK GDP much less than the rest of the world (10%)) and talk of an economic disaster if we leave are just scare stories. Under Article 50, the EU is legally required to negotiate "free and fair trade" with non-EU countries, so we would continue to have access to the EU markets, just like other countries. The EU would not want a trade war with the UK, if we were outside the single market as they have much more to lose than we.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Tories & Europe
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:06 am 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: May 25 2002
Posts: 37704
Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
samwire wrote:if only there was some way of protesting against this to make sure the 'privileged few' don't get their own way. what we need is every 4/5 years a, oh what shall we call it, an election or something where the oppressed masses can finally free themselves of the shackles that hold them. a chance for every adult to decide the fate of the country. i know, it's a crazy idea, but we have to dream.


So why propose a referendum?






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 135 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 14  Next





It is currently Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:44 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 90 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:44 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
15m
Film game
karetaker
5924
34m
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
38m
Liam Kay
FIL
54
42m
Rumours and signings v9
NickyKiss
28913
45m
Leeds away first up
Scarlet Pimp
55
59m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
Recent
Ground Improvements
Wollo-Wollo-
253
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Whino4life
556
Recent
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
236
Recent
Planning for next season
Septimius Se
194
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Deadcowboys1
14
1m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
1m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
236
1m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
2m
Film game
karetaker
5924
2m
Transfer Talk V5
Whino4life
556
3m
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
4m
Planning for next season
Septimius Se
194
5m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63304
6m
Betting 2025
karetaker
23
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
karetaker
30
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
15m
Film game
karetaker
5924
34m
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
38m
Liam Kay
FIL
54
42m
Rumours and signings v9
NickyKiss
28913
45m
Leeds away first up
Scarlet Pimp
55
59m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
Recent
Ground Improvements
Wollo-Wollo-
253
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Whino4life
556
Recent
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
236
Recent
Planning for next season
Septimius Se
194
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Deadcowboys1
14
1m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
1m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
236
1m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
2m
Film game
karetaker
5924
2m
Transfer Talk V5
Whino4life
556
3m
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
4m
Planning for next season
Septimius Se
194
5m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63304
6m
Betting 2025
karetaker
23
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
karetaker
30
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.